After-Life S2RP System Feedback

[PepicWalrus]

Checkout out plans for stats and S2RP system in our Update 1 and give us feedback on it!

! https://nebulous.cloud/threads/half...e-1-building-a-foundation.61588/#post-1468114

 

[Bio Junior]

You'll only be able to use S2RP?

 

[PepicWalrus]

You'll only be able to use S2RP?

No. As it currently stands city side stuff will be S2RP first and Outlands will be S2K first.

 

[Hęłupiąż]

I think that S2RP is just straight out boring and yawning at this point. I think that combat system, should be script based and similar, if not exactly the same, as it's in Synapse project. I really encourage you to play this server a bit, perhaps you might find some good ideas to implement and see how it's played out.

This makes game actually fun and somewhat standardised, without powergaming, without break of the time-scale and without admin interference.

 

[PepicWalrus]

I think that S2RP is just straight out boring and yawning at this point. I think that combat system, should be script based and similar, if not exactly the same, as it's in Synapse project. I really encourage you to play this server a bit, perhaps you might find some good ideas to implement and see how it's played out.

This makes game actually fun and somewhat standardised, without powergaming, without break of the time-scale and without admin interference.

As it stands, Out of the city will be S2K, and inner city will be S2RP. Our stat system will be mechanicalized and gamified for both. You'll be getting things that help out of S2RP, and help how you preform in S2RP.

 

[Hęłupiąż]

As it stands, Out of the city will be S2K, and inner city will be S2RP. Our stat system will be mechanicalized and gamified for both. You'll be getting things that help out of S2RP, and help how you preform in S2RP.

I think it's bound to be boring. Why can't I use my stats in combat? Have anyone ever had a nice S2RP? I don't think so personally. Making such mechanic in inner city, will just result in people avoiding it. Meaning that inner city RP gonna be much more boring and I can imagine it being just like back in days, with 20 people AFK in city square, waiting for their rations up, so they can escape the city one day.

 

[Berke]

As it stands, Out of the city will be S2K, and inner city will be S2RP. Our stat system will be mechanicalized and gamified for both. You'll be getting things that help out of S2RP, and help how you preform in S2RP.

that does not seem to be good idea. even P2L fights are a shitshow at least S2K standardized the process and stopped powergaming

 

[MaXenzie]

that does not seem to be good idea. even P2L fights are a shitshow at least S2K standardized the process and stopped powergaming

there'll be a concrete system for combat resolution at the very least

at that point, admin intervention is only needed insofar as looking at a log to see if someone did purposefully ignore the rules laid out

it'd be great to trust folks to P2L freely, but having something people can squarely point to and go "these are the bounds" will help

 

[Berke]

there'll be a concrete system for combat resolution at the very least

at that point, admin intervention is only needed insofar as looking at a log to see if someone did purposefully ignore the rules laid out

it'd be great to trust folks to P2L freely, but having something people can squarely point to and go "these are the bounds" will help

I mean S2RP if agreed by both sides should be the case but it ought to be S2K by default IMO. S2RP involves timescaling, metagaming and many other aspects I'd rather not involve.

 

[MaXenzie]

I mean S2RP if agreed by both sides should be the case but it ought to be S2K by default IMO. S2RP involves timescaling, metagaming and many other aspects I'd rather not involve.

i get that it has a bad history, but the iteration wants to try with it, and put stuff in that'll attempt to make it work

a lot of people have grown sick of S2K and want no part of it, probably in part because of how much conflict resolution and participation in events requires it

so the best concession is to have a dedicated S2K area, and a dedicated S2RP area

personally, i refuse to S2K, so i'm happy to have an area that i can participate in without having to make my excuses and leave the moment a fight breaks out

 

[Berke]

i get that it has a bad history, but the iteration wants to try with it, and put stuff in that'll attempt to make it work

a lot of people have grown sick of S2K and want no part of it, probably in part because of how much conflict resolution and participation in events requires it

so the best concession is to have a dedicated S2K area, and a dedicated S2RP area

personally, i refuse to S2K, so i'm happy to have an area that i can participate in without having to make my excuses and leave the moment a fight breaks out

events being S2RP, I am all for it. But every conflict being S2RP in the city by default can lead to a more stale experience also creating more load on staff members' backs to artbitrate every gunfight.

 

[boots]

I think it's bound to be boring. Why can't I use my stats in combat? Have anyone ever had a nice S2RP? I don't think so personally. Making such mechanic in inner city, will just result in people avoiding it. Meaning that inner city RP gonna be much more boring and I can imagine it being just like back in days, with 20 people AFK in city square, waiting for their rations up, so they can escape the city one day.

I gotta agree with you, sorta. Stats should be minimal in combat to prevent people from minmaxing characters just made strictly to S2K.

That being said, I really don't enjoy S2RP at all.

 

[Hęłupiąż]

I gotta agree with you, sorta. Stats should be minimal in combat to prevent people from minmaxing characters just made strictly to S2K.

That being said, I really don't enjoy S2RP at all.

Indeed, especially as we have everything needed to make it immersive and part of the 'Roleplay'. Why would I need to type /me raises his gun, when there's an animation SHOWCASING EXACTLY THAT. Not to mention, shooting and dodging bullets, or w/e.

I honestly think, that some people just have aversion to anything GAMEPLAY/GAME related in mechanics, because of some underlying 'Second Life' like vision of Roleplay, where they just be sleeping in front of the keyboard, typing some lenghty messages about /me whatever, while avoiding any sort of 'adventure' to be in place, because of PK mechanic.

I honestly think, that it results in less action, less Role-Play, less immersion and just weird overall experience. Where there's literally, nothing happening in the city, outside of some people sitting on benches, or standing in some corner.

There should be expectation, that game is centered around PKs. That your character is only a impermanent story, like leaf on the wind. Scripts should be much more easy to obtain, much less whitelists and more crafting + crafting components. Whole meta standpoint, should be balanced around ENFORCING THINGS ICly. Having a PK and coming back to rebelling, against Combine should be easier, if one wishes for it (so that whole experience is not too grind heavy), but also severely punishing, being CP shouldn't be some mambo-jambo of being this 5'5 barrack bunny either, but someone who is a dead-man walking for sake of his family.

Anyway tl;dr ; S2RP sucks, ENFORCING MOST OF THINGS IC NOT, PKs should be expected to be part of gameplay loop, easier grind, more action = more life = more RolePlay = More fun.

 

[MaXenzie]

events being S2RP, I am all for it. But every conflict being S2RP in the city by default can lead to a more stale experience also creating more load on staff members' backs to artbitrate every gunfight.

anecdote;

i fucked with Gunsmoke 3 and Respite and many other GMOD servers that were locked to basically strictly S2RP, and historically, they worked.
S2RP not working is, as far as i can tell, a symptom that is nearly exclusive to this community, or communities adjacent to it that similarly launched as a result of Lemonpunch's closure

i'm of the opinion that you should, as a roleplayer, generally want to resolve situations through roleplay. if you're happy doing passive roleplaying, sitting around and talking to one another for hours on end without being bored, then i don't see how roleplaying a fight can be more boring than that.

generally, if i wanted high-octane action, i'd play CSGO.
i get that some people have been with S2K so long that they wouldn't get any dopamine from a slower-paced fight, which is why i'm happy for there to be a section of the map reserved for that, where people who go there are explicitly opting in to deal with conflict via that resolution
in return, i'd like the same courtesy of my preferred way of conflict resolution having an area on the map reserved for it

 

[PepicWalrus]

creating more load on staff members' backs to artbitrate every gunfight.

This is why we are developing a hard-coded rule system and mechancilizing the systems. This way people can do these fights without oversight and if something needs refereeing on we'll have logs to look through.

 

[Hęłupiąż]

anecdote;



i'm of the opinion that you should, as a roleplayer, generally want to resolve situations through roleplay. if you're happy doing passive roleplaying, sitting around and talking to one another for hours on end without being bored, then i don't see how roleplaying a fight can be more boring than that.

Roleplay is not excusively writing 20 lines /me of how you fracture someone's head. It's ROLEPLAYING a CHARACTER. I don't see how this contributes to anything, or caters to anyone else, than people, who are just too scared to lose, or too scared of quick resolution. S2K is just, as RP, as writing lenghty, time-scale breaking /mes.
I honestly don't understand why you're trying to spin in one 'dopamine' angle. It is a game and fundamentally it must be fun, so that playerbase remains and people want to play. Me and probably a good majority of players, view S2RP as a bad, troublesome and straight out boring.
Comparing it to CSGO is just bad, have you ever played HL2? It was fun, that's why people like this setting. One of the funs, was combat. A fundamental thing of most GAMES and HL2RP as well. Combine - Rebel dynamic. Without a good combat system, all you get is people who are just playing VR Chat but with power tripping sado-maso spin.

 

[MaXenzie]

Roleplay is not excusively writing 20 lines /me of how you fracture someone's head. It's ROLEPLAYING a CHARACTER. I don't see how this contributes to anything, or caters to anyone else, than people, who are just too scared to lose, or too scared of quick resolution. S2K is just, as RP, as writing lenghty, time-scale breaking /mes.
I honestly don't understand why you're trying to spin in one 'dopamine' angle. It is a game and fundamentally it must be fun, so that playerbase remains and people want to play. Me and probably a good majority of players, view S2RP as a bad, troublesome and straight out boring.
Comparing it to CSGO is just bad, have you ever played HL2? It was fun, that's why people like this setting. One of the funs, was combat. A fundamental thing of most GAMES and HL2RP as well. Combine - Rebel dynamic. Without a good combat system, all you get is people who are just playing VR Chat but with power tripping sado-maso spin.

i disagree with practically every assertion you've made here.

the server will cater to S2K and S2RP fans, and it is fucking rude to demand people who enjoy S2RP to have no regular means of conflict resolution within the server

i find S2RP fun

let me have my fun while i let you have yours, away from mine

 

[Hęłupiąż]

i disagree with practically every assertion you've made here.

the server will cater to S2K and S2RP fans, and it is fucking rude to demand people who enjoy S2RP to have no regular means of conflict resolution within the server

i find S2RP fun

let me have my fun while i let you have yours, away from mine

It's rude to demand a fun and equal mechanic for all?
You can S2RP all you want in some 'Club Fight' like scenario, in Cafe Baltic. But, why would I be forced to write 20 lines /me's on and forth for 20+ minutes, for something that would take 1-2 minutes in real-life time. For example a robbery, or me bashing your head open in slums for being a loyalist.

If anyone here beliefs that S2RP is somewhat better mean of resolution the conflict on server, he is wrong imo. and such server and framework is bound to have same fate, as every other boring Serious RolePlay Half Life 2 in past and future.

 

[MaXenzie]

It's rude to demand a fun and equal mechanic for all?

the fundamental flaw in your argument is that there are many people who don't like S2K, who don't want to participate in S2K, and are upset that they find themselves ostracized from large server events because they invariably involve S2K in order to resolve the fights that occur within them

is your solution to just tell them to fuck off elsewhere?

 

[Berke]

anecdote;

i fucked with Gunsmoke 3 and Respite and many other GMOD servers that were locked to basically strictly S2RP, and historically, they worked.
S2RP not working is, as far as i can tell, a symptom that is nearly exclusive to this community, or communities adjacent to it that similarly launched as a result of Lemonpunch's closure

i'm of the opinion that you should, as a roleplayer, generally want to resolve situations through roleplay. if you're happy doing passive roleplaying, sitting around and talking to one another for hours on end without being bored, then i don't see how roleplaying a fight can be more boring than that.

generally, if i wanted high-octane action, i'd play CSGO.
i get that some people have been with S2K so long that they wouldn't get any dopamine from a slower-paced fight, which is why i'm happy for there to be a section of the map reserved for that, where people who go there are explicitly opting in to deal with conflict via that resolution
in return, i'd like the same courtesy of my preferred way of conflict resolution having an area on the map reserved for it

considering your points I will concede that S2RP might fit into the serious roleplay aspect of HL2RP. OOC S2K skills do affect the system in an unfair way, any John Doe with good S2K skills can wreck people regardless of their adversaries IC circumstances. But my worries are not that it will be boring or such, it is text based roleplay so we all are expected write and act out roleplay scenarios. I have read your other posts about this on the forums, also after reflecting on it I see your point.

Here are my worries though. In a forum based roleplay, in a discord channel or a DnD game with your friends, all roleplay that takes place is voluntary per se, that is not the case with HL2RP which is probably what makes it shine IMO. You are in a server with many other people, a world that moves on without you that has draconian rules that you are expected to comply. Most situations you find yourself in are not fun situations or situations you wanted to be in. There is the fun part, you also roleplay the unwanted parts and that leads to tremendous character development. In the rare case that things go your way or you beat the odds, you feel very good, you are supposed to feel good. Because most of the time you winning/escaping consequences is not the intended outcome. HL2RP especially here made you feel this in the practical sense. We all know the world of HL2 is not fair, that it is cruel. But the gamemode made you experience it first hand.

You might be questioning the purpose of the tangent I went on at the paragraph above, it is about the odds. You spend hours upon hours on your characters, that makes the roleplay more engaging as you develop your character but it also increases the odds of any conflict. One thing this gamemode does well is to force confrontation with high odds. In a S2K system, however crude or unfair it might be, the rules are clear and the outcome is mostly uncontestable bar some unusual cases of hacking or such. In most forms of roleplay where combat is simulated over roleplay via text, you cannot even permanently kill other players' characters without their consent but that is not the case in HL2RP which I mentioned above. Implementation of S2RP will need to be *heavily* mechanicized if we want to avoid making players drag their feet and disrupting the process at every point, also to protect the high stakes environment which makes the whole thing shine. Also there are issues with timescale.

Oh god, the timescale. Do I even need to talk about timescale? Anyone who played on nebulous who did a P2L melee fight with a CP Unit or even another citizen will know what I mean. How do you intend to solve those issues? I saw @PepicWalrus address that it will be mechanicized, but how? How do you intend to force players to resolve their conflicts in a fair way that also makes metagame harder? S2RP also paves the way for bad faith actors metagaming, that is an issue to consider.