Redo the power scale of Civil Protection units (Or just add SMGs to 25s).

[WstStranger]

Suggestion: Rethink the weapons issued to every CivPro. Or, to the very least, make 25 Rank Point Units be issued MP5Ks or similar.

Why it would be worth adding:

It has been clear that ever since, let's say, rp_asheville, or even before that rebels have gotten to a base power much higher than handguns. While 50 rank points is not difficult to attain, still gives me the perspective that 25s are outright worthless, which shouldn't be at all.

Personally, I don't find it fun to fight very uneven battles, as some people, who I have to give a point to, feels hopeless to fight against AK rebels who out-damage and outrange you without any trade-offs. MP5Ks, in that, still give a lot of disadvantages, but you spray in automatic fire more as a trade-off as you can afford to carry much more ammo.

Handguns, while still a weapon that will save your life, will not win any war, never have made a significant role in one. This isn't CityRP anymore!

Thinking it from a more IC perspective, you say Cops are auxiliary, yet issuing a handgun to essentially what is, or is approaching a war scale conflict between each side, is just telling cops are disposable. It breaks my own suspension of disbelief, sometimes, as the morale seems unusually high (Which isn't very high in reality) for the situation we are in. With the fewer and fewer reasons to stay with the Combine as the story progresses, cops should be motivated more to stay, and giving them an impossible task isn't one way.

While I have no idea if the plan for restricting weaponry to what is issued is a one off (That is another can of worms) thing for this map, it emphasizes that the balance of asymmetrical power is off for this map. I dare say Cops feel weak, laughable even, from a rebel perspective. RLs are no joke, but, really, this is probably not the perspective Civil Protection should probably have.

Necessary content: Thoughts from Headcop and command. Probably some smaller value changing coding, depending on what they do.

Note: I am making more of a formal discussion than a concrete suggestion, but the point is that base cops are too weak already, so how about we improve that.

 

[Bio Junior]

This isn't CityRP anymore!

 

[Deleted member 7576]

skill issue

 

[Bio Junior]

While I don't disagree with this because, let's be honest, everyone just wants to have fun, I can also say that I've seen, done and won firefights with pistol only. Take that into consideration.

 

[Sneedsformerlychucks]

#Mp5's for 25%'s

 

[RedMan]

Suggestion: Rethink the weapons issued to every CivPro. Or, to the very least, make 25 Rank Point Units be issued MP5Ks or similar.

Why it would be worth adding:

It has been clear that ever since, let's say, rp_asheville, or even before that rebels have gotten to a base power much higher than handguns. While 50 rank points is not difficult to attain, still gives me the perspective that 25s are outright worthless, which shouldn't be at all.

Personally, I don't find it fun to fight very uneven battles, as some people, who I have to give a point to, feels hopeless to fight against AK rebels who out-damage and outrange you without any trade-offs. MP5Ks, in that, still give a lot of disadvantages, but you spray in automatic fire more as a trade-off as you can afford to carry much more ammo.

Handguns, while still a weapon that will save your life, will not win any war, never have made a significant role in one. This isn't CityRP anymore!

Thinking it from a more IC perspective, you say Cops are auxiliary, yet issuing a handgun to essentially what is, or is approaching a war scale conflict between each side, is just telling cops are disposable. It breaks my own suspension of disbelief, sometimes, as the morale seems unusually high (Which isn't very high in reality) for the situation we are in. With the fewer and fewer reasons to stay with the Combine as the story progresses, cops should be motivated more to stay, and giving them an impossible task isn't one way.

While I have no idea if the plan for restricting weaponry to what is issued is a one off (That is another can of worms) thing for this map, it emphasizes that the balance of asymmetrical power is off for this map. I dare say Cops feel weak, laughable even, from a rebel perspective. RLs are no joke, but, really, this is probably not the perspective Civil Protection should probably have.

Necessary content: Thoughts from Headcop and command. Probably some smaller value changing coding, depending on what they do.

Note: I am making more of a formal discussion than a concrete suggestion, but the point is that base cops are too weak already, so how about we improve that.

The 25% is supposed to be an introductionary rank into the Civil Protection faction. It is a foundation that allows people to explore the faction with their incompetency and poor actions being fairly inconsequential to the general operations of the faction. In order to remain assured that their actions will remain inconsequential, this also requires their weapon to be limited. Instances of poor gun discipline such as misfire and friendly fire can be quite the humerous mistake, but it can also be potentially a sour or even a fatal one.

You yourself outlined there are fewer and fewer reason to stay with the Combine. Yet you are also asking me to alleviate and suspend the security measures in place to constrict and limit the potential loss of assets and damage that can be done to the garrison in the event a functionary decides to go rogue. Especially since 25s are not mandated to undergo any form of memory replacement that otherwise hinders them from performing conspiratory acts.

I should also bring up the fact that you are removing value from the 50% rank. MP5K is unique to the 50% because that is the reward for obtaining said rank. You could argue that the accessibility to grenades is sufficient on its own, however, I am yet to see 50% consistently utilise said grenades effectively.

I propose you suggest a better alternative to overcoming the problem with the points that I have risen. Alternatively, you could pursue the root cause of the problem and that is the messy rebel economy. As far as I am aware, the introduction of the Emergents also introduced a reliable source of pulse ammunition for the AR2s.

 

[Kafe]

From my experience, 25's were given SMGs under the table all the time.
I had my CP for just shy of 3 maps and never saw above 25, but I more or less had regular access to an SMG most of the time, helped a lot in more hectic maps, but the range accuracy of a pistol is vastly underappreciated compared to the MP5.

 

['77 East]

however, I am yet to see 50% consistently utilise said grenades effectively.

frag grenades are pretty worthless unless spammed as even the average blusuit can eat one or two before they die
smoke grenades get utilized the most but are not a catch-all form of cover
stun grenades have never been concisely good outside of s2rp since they were cut down in clockwork for the effect going through props

this is what bites about the standardisation problem; previously 25%'s had the luxury of picking up whatever they could nab from combat if they had a way to provide ammunition for it, so they weren't entirely outgunned unless they died and lost their weapon; some people even passed over insurgent weapons that would otherwise be tossed into the RL vendor and forgotten about, now that's pretty much an impossibility.

 

[Andrew]

people just give 25's whatever's laying around and they usually stick with it since everyone knows
the real talk would be improving rankup time since people like me don't have time to play each day, and when we do we focus on the rebel side since we'll have 2-3 characters for it

 

[Tinbe]

I am yet to see 50% consistently utilise said grenades effectively.

Tbh there's probably at least few 50s that don't even realize they're supposed to get frag grenades, even if it's mentioned in the rank thread. Not even once during my time in the faction - from Apocalypse to C24 - did I hold a grenade of any type, despite spending every single map starting from Asheville at 50 rank points. Apparently there's always been a vendor for 50s that gives them grenades, but never did I actually see one, nor was it ever conveyed - nor did I ever really see cops use grenades particularly often.

 

[WstStranger]

The 25% is supposed to be an introductionary rank into the Civil Protection faction. It is a foundation that allows people to explore the faction with their incompetency and poor actions being fairly inconsequential to the general operations of the faction. In order to remain assured that their actions will remain inconsequential, this also requires their weapon to be limited. Instances of poor gun discipline such as misfire and friendly fire can be quite the humerous mistake, but it can also be potentially a sour or even a fatal one.

Hmmm, sounds like you have that little trust into literally whitelist holders (There are exceptions, but they tend to be very rare cases), who now need some experience in server (AKA, know the basic mechanics and would end up shooting a gun or two, plus the rundown when accepted to CivPro). Almost every cop who got accepted is to the very least sportsman enough to NOT blatantly abuse vendors or be morons.

You yourself outlined there are fewer and fewer reason to stay with the Combine. Yet you are also asking me to alleviate and suspend the security measures in place to constrict and limit the potential loss of assets and damage that can be done to the garrison in the event a functionary decides to go rogue. Especially since 25s are not mandated to undergo any form of memory replacement that otherwise hinders them from performing conspiratory acts.

I had worded it incorrectly, but you have some point in IC trust factor. I will argue that in theory all cops who do get here are mostly loyal initially (I mean, why else would you be here at first?), yet the reasons could diminish as their story progresses, for example family cohesion perks being disintegrated (From what I understood of the C24 finale). Almost all defectors have had a little while in the faction to then start going rogue, at that point they were mostly 50s or higher. Still, any cop who really wants to do damage will do lots of damage regardless of rank, I had seen rank having very little to do how horrible the undermining went.

Again, if this faction is locked behind a whitelist, I have minimum faith that they aren't going to be some covert rebel main trying to subvert the Combine for his OOC rebel friends from minute 1 and only that instead of making a cool story of slowly realizing their side is the worse one, and trying to subtly oppose the CMB to redeem themselves.

I should also bring up the fact that you are removing value from the 50% rank. MP5K is unique to the 50% because that is the reward for obtaining said rank. You could argue that the accessibility to grenades is sufficient on its own, however, I am yet to see 50% consistently utilise said grenades effectively.

This one is because that equipment tended to be limited in stock for it to be used. I obviously don't use those things out of nowhere (No grenade call-out killed me once in the metro) and sometimes I lag too much to use them effectively. However, if a Team leader calls it, I use one.

Otherwise, skill issue, I guess (I am gagging).

the real talk would be improving rankup time since people like me don't have time to play each day, and when we do we focus on the rebel side since we'll have 2-3 characters for it

I won't lie, if 25 is supposed to be an introductory rank, to the very least, we should take much less time to promote 25s to 50s, if you distrust newbies that much initially. I would let you disregard my entire suggestion for this to be in effect (Like, really encourage more promotions to 50).


Anyway, I hope I do not look aggressive or extremely redundant, but I am trying to think how these issues are solved or point out that they shouldn't be a concern on my perspective and trying to be in management perspective, too.

 

[slick]

Tbh there's probably at least few 50s that don't even realize they're supposed to get frag grenades, even if it's mentioned in the rank thread. Not even once during my time in the faction - from Apocalypse to C24 - did I hold a grenade of any type, despite spending every single map starting from Asheville at 50 rank points. Apparently there's always been a vendor for 50s that gives them grenades, but never did I actually see one, nor was it ever conveyed - nor did I ever really see cops use grenades particularly often.

As someone who was just getting into this faction this iteration, I fell victim to this too. They're above the main vendor, the smaller two bits of Combine tech. There's one for 50, and one for 75.