The Current State of Civil Protection: A Critique

[ShaVeK HaChaver 814]

The bad egg RL's need to change, and ideally at the same time we need to identify the people/circles in RebelRP who antagonize cops and piss them off to the point they feel the needed to 'get even' OOC.

Because unfortunately it does go both ways.

This much is true. Countless time in Geneva OP chat, we had to discuss overcompetitiveness stemming from both sides. I'm quite well-aware of the Resistance side of the coin, at least a group of individuals who are directly contributing to bad-eggery. Though, again, as I am, more or less, a Combine main, I can't speak on that without positing conjecture. That's for someone else to tackle.

The bad egg RL's have a history of prioritizing gameplay (read: the shit that the Clockwork pre-character customization quiz stressed you do NOT prioritize) for, per what I've been told, years. Others have already gained a bad track record for themselves this iteration. It's going to take a lot to constructively develop for the better. Simply relying on them to do so is not the correct fallback.

 

['77 East]

The bad egg RL's have a history of prioritizing gameplay (read: the shit that the Clockwork pre-character customization quiz stressed you do NOT prioritize) for, per what I've been told, years. Others have already gained a bad track record for themselves this iteration. It's going to take a lot to constructively develop for the better. Simply relying on them to do so is not the correct fallback.

Going on record, again, that the last 5 maps have had people trying to 'talk behind closed doors' and it's done absolutely nothing.

This thread is the antipathy for overdue change; I'm not asking for anyone to be outright removed, merely the door opening for IC change potential beyond someone getting a brand new rank leader; which does fuck all because then they're back to doing the same shit over and over consequence free.

If I get PK'd, I'm a 25%. Rank leaders deserve no exceptions, especially when we have applicants sitting around who go unanswered and free slots unassigned.

 

[Flop]

Going on record, again, that the last 5 maps have had people trying to 'talk behind closed doors' and it's done absolutely nothing.

This thread is the antipathy for overdue change; I'm not asking for anyone to be outright removed, merely the door opening for IC change potential beyond someone getting a brand new rank leader; which does fuck all because then they're back to doing the same shit over and over consequence free.

If I get PK'd, I'm a 25%. Rank leaders deserve no exceptions, especially when we have applicants sitting around who go unanswered and free slots unassigned.

Last part esp I'm gonna slightly chip in for, so far longest person I remember waiting for an response with a posted app was Medusa, I don't know what the process is for selection of RL's, nor do I claim I do, but poor guy waited for a while before going onto do something else with his character eitherway, from just a outside perspective that just seemed like a bruh moment. But that's just me

 

[Mads]

In relation to the APC incident yesterday, we didn’t know about the funeral, we didn’t know where it was, we didn’t know it was happening

The APC was sent out to take out an AA truck and it coincidentally stumbled upon funeral proceedings. Then it was RPG’d and ordered to retreat for which a combine sniper was deployed to cover its retreat.

The sniper’s spotter spotted another group of funeral-goers and promptly opened fire.

All in all it was purely coincidental, and the responses are based on the fact that people assume every combine player reads the resistance discord, which isn’t the case.

I’m inclined to point out that we were multiple people who weren’t aware of the burial. I was part of the APC crew, and we were approx. 8 people in total involved. Noone mentioned the burial OOC’ly to us.

The fact you’re dumb-bombing Ovxy over this is insane. He responded the way he did due to the actions of others, including others like me.

 

[key]

I spent a lot of time effectively strangling the progression of the server by holding onto my idea of what Overwatch should be and represent in the lore back in the day. I regret how I handled my own tenure as the head of Overwatch and wish I'd have had some foresight to let go of my vision and look at things objectively.

It's hard to tell if I could have done anything differently that would've had a positive effect or not, because of how overwhelmingly complex the politics of this sort of thing can be. I want to clarify I'm not addressing anyone in particular here; I have a very limited understanding and comprehension of the current state of affairs, I'm just making this post because I see people starting to get a bit heated.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is just this: stop fighting. Nobody will achieve anything with cheap zingers and witty one liners. If you're truly invested in making this server last and improving the experience, you have to cool down and step back to see if maybe you are or aren't in the wrong. Again, not pointing fingers at anyone: I have no idea what's really going on. I'm just trying to encourage more positive engagement with one another. If you've made a mistake, don't feel bad about it. Mistakes mean that all you can do from there on out is improve.

This might be a chunk of nonsense, I really have no idea. But I do hope that you all can find a solution to this problem, because it's been cool to see HL2 have some form of continuation, even if I don't have a part to play in it. It's still got a special place in my heart, and I want you guys to succeed.

Don't sit down in private, do it here. Talk to each other, accept your mistakes, lift each other up, and figure out what you can do from here on out to do better. With that attitude, the only place you have to go is up.

I know this might come off as hopelessly optimistic, but it can't hurt to try at least.

 

[Provingmedusa]

Last part esp I'm gonna slightly chip in for, so far longest person I remember waiting for an response with a posted app was Medusa, I don't know what the process is for selection of RL's, nor do I claim I do, but poor guy waited for a while before going onto do something else with his character eitherway, from just a outside perspective that just seemed like a bruh moment. But that's just me

Wasn't planning on saying anything besides my own thread, but I was told I was being looked at being an RL since Asheville. I made the app in C24. You're not wrong in that I was waiting a short time but when I decided to just go do something else with JURY-2 I asked Ovxy to delay giving it judgement for a time.

 

[Rabid]

I've told people right from the start that if they want to press their "rebelRP has faults too!!!" stuff, make a thread for it.

I have complaints, most people have complaints, but the people who throw whataboutism to try and claim civpro's failings are just 'something that happens' never want to air theirs in public, for some strange reason...

The only reason I'm pushing it to be brought up here too is because, lets be honest, rebels are a lot more resistant to being picked apart than cops are. If I made a thread right now do you think people are going to be willing to drop their friends in the shit for some 'harmless banter'? Do you think I'm gonna get the same level of attention or agrees?

Of course it won't, because I wouldn't be attacking any 'culture' like pointing to RL's are. I'm basically telling people to name and shame their friends being dickheads at that point, and that won't happen if I'm setting up my own thread.

The only real option is here and now while its fresh in mind and both sides are pointing out problems.

 

[OneClassyBanana]

I guess what I'm trying to get at is just this: stop fighting. Nobody will achieve anything with cheap zingers and witty one liners. If you're truly invested in making this server last and improving the experience, you have to cool down and step back to see if maybe you are or aren't in the wrong.

Maybe the sanest thing I've seen all thread. And you're absolutely right. C24 brought out a lot of 'old nebulous' in a not-insignificant portion of the playerbase, behaviorally.

Y'all need to start just - letting go. That goes for everyone here, because to Key's point, it isn't an issue specific to just one person. And before someone chips in with the 'well the RLs started it!' or 'well the rebels started it!' - who cares. Seriously. Who gives a shit. A frighteningly large portion of this discussion has been thoroughly tainted by antiquated mentalities and personal grudges that extend, in some cases, back to Helix 1. Hell, some of them even longer. And I'm gonna tell you right now, the vast majority of us do not give a single Fuck about it.

The vast majority of us don't care how snappy you are or how good you've 'gotten' someone with log pulls or witty comebacks in here. We don't care how quickly you can dogpile someone or rating-bomb the shit out of a post in a thread that's already sodden to the nines in simmering, venomous spite. We don't care. A lot of us just want solutions to the problems afflicting something we love.

Whether or not to continue being this obstinately juvenile shouldn't be that hard of a decision to make. Most of you are in your 20s by now, and that's on the younger end. Let it go. Step back and get a new perspective. Start acting like adults. Again, as the good man said;

Talk to each other, accept your mistakes, lift each other up, and figure out what you can do from here on out to do better. With that attitude, the only place you have to go is up.

The only thing making enemies out of you guys is yourselves.

 

['77 East]

If I made a thread right now do you think people are going to be willing to drop their friends in the shit for some 'harmless banter'? Do you think I'm gonna get the same level of attention or agrees?

I would and will, draw your own conclusions.

People have gripes, some more justified than others.

 

['77 East]

And I'm gonna tell you right now, the vast majority of us do not give a single fuck about it.

A lot of us just want solutions to the problems afflicting something we love.

Classy, you cannot have the solutions without talking about the problems, you cannot discuss the problems without the root causes.

On the insurgency side, the root causes act alone; they have no sway outside their groups and what influence they have peters out the minute someone else tells them to fuck off or to stop bothering them because some function is happening. I cannot get 'forced' to take part in acts or some kind of mentality if I don't want to.

On the civpro side, the root causes have authority for everyone; besides core members of the transhuman arm. To ignore their demands is to invite death for failure to follow orders, to resist or twist the wordings is the same outcome. As it is a whitelist, disobeying orders means a character kill or dewhitelist, meaning those with the mentalities (who have the sole authority that is rarely overridden) rule supreme.

See the problem?

 

[OneClassyBanana]

Classy, you cannot have the solutions without talking about the problems, you cannot discuss the problems without the root causes.

My point was that the problems do need to be addressed. But not like this. Not in such a way that it creates a thread that, eleven pages in, has devolved into effectively the same group of people arguing in the exact same bitter, vindictive voices they've been jabbing at one another for years.

Because when it just relapses into petty, personal attacks, the focus is inherently taken away from the root causes of these issues and instead relegated to 'winning the argument'.

Let me put it like this, because I can see where my original wording might've had some room for misinterpretation.

'Winning the argument' and 'solving the problem' aren't the same thing.

And that's something this community is several years late to realize. It takes discussions had in good faith and bereft of this inane insistence on defending what, from the outside looking in, seems to come down to some bizarre sense of personal honor. It takes people letting go of their poisons and lowering the swords and focusing on working together.

No spectacle, no pointlessly grandiose gestures of debate. Just cooperation for the mutual improvement of something we all care very deeply about.

 

[MaXenzie]

My point was that the problems do need to be addressed. But not like this. Not in such a way that it creates a thread that, eleven pages in, has devolved into effectively the same group of people arguing in the exact same bitter, vindictive voices they've been jabbing at one another for years.

Because when it just relapses into petty, personal attacks, the focus is inherently taken away from the root causes of these issues and instead relegated to 'winning the argument'.

Let me put it like this, because I can see where my original wording might've had some room for misinterpretation.

'Winning the argument' and 'solving the problem' aren't the same thing.

And that's something this community is several years late to realize.

tbf a major issue is that for a lot of people, when the problem is pointed out, they just go "there is no problem"

its like trying to solve a problem that many people don't even think is a problem in the first place, and that's an effort in futility

 

[Anti-tankspy]

I have pointed it out on the rebel critique thread, I'll do it again here

I don't believe in general (except for a very small, specific group of people) that combine/rebel wants to dunk on the other's fun. Behavior like this on today's nebulous is almost always a chain reaction emitting from seeing a shitty behavior demonstrated from the other.

If you want to stop this, put people in charge in Civil Protection/Overwatch who are OOCly liked by the Resistance, and vice-versa. The difference in how both factions will treat the other, both IC and OOCly, will be night and day. The solution is there, it just needs people with the proper authority to do it and not be afraid of any backlash.

 

[OneClassyBanana]

tbf a major issue is that for a lot of people, when the problem is pointed out, they just go "there is no problem"

its like trying to solve a problem that many people don't even think is a problem in the first place, and that's an effort in futility

And maybe you're right. Maybe Key and I are both wasting our breath on trying to wake people up to the notion that you can accept there's a problem, and in turn start working together to fix it, without somehow 'losing' in the community. But if it just goes unsaid period, then that's even worse.

 

[MaXenzie]

And maybe you're right. Maybe Key and I are both wasting our breath on trying to wake people up to the notion that you can accept there's a problem without somehow 'losing' in the community. But if it just goes unsaid period, then that's even worse.

i mean its just got to the point where you can unironically have a conversation go
"so many issues stem from the server being S2K and incentivizing OOC skill over RP for conflict resolution, right?"
"yep"
"so we should try to find a better alternative to S2K"
"no, i like S2K"

 

['77 East]

If you want to stop this, put people in charge in Civil Protection/Overwatch who are OOCly liked by the Resistance, and vice-versa.

Never going to happen for the simple point that neither side will be able to put 'their' preferred people in, insurgents want moderates and civpro leads want hardliners who froth at the mouth for the CPOG being mandatory issue.

If someone has a problem with a cell lead, there's nothing that dialogue (in character) or violence can't solve. Cody couldn't be talked down from being an idiot so he got splattered by a bunch of farmers who were fed up with him already.

You won't have that on the civpro side; it's a top-down hierarchy and a majority of rank leaders outright deride any attempts at mediation, they despise change and have immunity to keep their positions, even attempts by HEADSTAFF to remove RL's on this iteration got met with planned mass resignations to force their hand.

Nothing will change until RL's get their immunity revoked and someone starts moderating the more s2k rabid parties on both sides.

 

[Appetite Ruining Kebab]

Nothing will change until RL's get their immunity revoked and someone starts moderating the more s2k rabid parties on both sides.

what are you on about @Rabid cant s2k

 

[Rabid]

what are you on about @Rabid cant s2k

Facts

Not anymore anyway lmao

 

[Deleted member 7576]

even attempts by HEADSTAFF to remove RL's on this iteration got met with planned mass resignations to force their hand.

You’re making stuff up at this point

This never happened, headstaff never intervened in anything related to Rank-Leaders, and I don’t recall any threats of mass resignations

The only thing remotely close was the mass demotion issued after RLs did one of the worst factory raids on Asheville and all got temp demoted to 75 for what… 24h?

 

[Rabid]

You’re making stuff up at this point

This never happened, headstaff never intervened in anything related to Rank-Leaders, and I don’t recall any threats of mass resignations

The only thing remotely close was the mass demotion issued after RLs did one of the worst factory raids on Asheville and all got temp demoted to 75 for what… 24h?

Tbf even I heard directly at the time that people planned to mass-resign in response to their punishment until they were told it was temp.

It may have just been rumour but given who told me I had good reason to believe it.