the population pendulum swing

[Alexander The Great]

honestly
its an odd question


Rebels and CPs at the moment have 0 purpose to be online at the same time atm

CPs have Rebels for pure PVP, Rebels have CPs for pure PVP
so like
if CPs roleplay, they probably have their favorite characters to rp with on THEIR side
just like rebels have on THEIR side.
thus they wait on their favorites to be online
thus 1 waits on another, and a whole faction kinda bobs into one time type of thing

Same thing about rebels
many people join as I do, and sometimes I do when someone else is

we're all weaved in one another





so like, Rebel and CP side...
have no RP purpose to be online at the same time
CPs rp with each other, Rebels RP with each other

Ive never seen ANY OPPORTUNITY other than my own self lovely attempts, to have any RP related to CPs from rebel side, from non hostility parts.
And it seems like something makes CPs strict about being a bit more flexible with other than CPs, in RP.
like they're still in slavery days, when they see a citizen they cannot be any dynamic beyond "ur a stranger, thats it"

seems like they reserve their rp to their faction,
(which I assume its something lore wise, cuz if it is how it is, then thats the ongoing story??? idk)

As much as I tried to socialize as a non combine citizen with combine
mista fisherman
it always results in its weird dissonance of pointless hostility

its like im talking to NPCs programmed to reply basic commands with 0 thought about interaction potential rp and make something interesting for both sides out of an interaction.
other than CP sees citizen = Either hostility or Ignore cuz no hostility/ search.
Still no concept of a human interacting with another human, DESPITE THEM BEING 2 DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES.

there's no desire it seems, at all

despite the fact that we've BEYOND and POST episode 2, that CPs had enough moments to rethink about humanity and how they interact with them, even if they dont want to renounce their ways,
that not all is just an object or paper to them and they are the only human life, all else is either with me or against me.

it's like the current lore currently forces this brainless conflict between CP side and Rebel side.


Rebels have 0 need for CPs, other than random pew pew
CPs have 0 need for Rebels, other than random pew pew.

never even thought about CP number when Im on at citizen
i bet CPs never thought about rebel number when they're on either

who cares, (at the current RP circumstances)





There's no one that tried more than me, to have a lovely CP interaction.
Yet despite that,
no matter what happened IC
if there's SUDDEN POTENTIAL to escalate hostility?
All previous what happened, goes out the window.

It's like u try to make a friend, but he is unable to react to you more than a wall,
u have a few lovely moments
then something happens, no memory of lovely moments U ENEMY, I DO U UNGOOD TO YOU NOW.
0 thought

cuz CP side has different perspectives than a Rebel does
i dont judge

then it means that something lorewise is broken

so, rebels dont need cps, and cps dont need rebels.

so much so that i didnt even think about CPs number at all since I began playing


JUST YESTERDAY WE HAD FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH CPS UNDERGROUND IN NEW EVENT MAP
why was it immediate rdm simulator? on FIRST encounter of a POTENTIAL cp sighting
i was immediately gunned down despite being unarmed from a far tunnel of pure darkness.
"potential rebel assumption"

There was no attempt to even communicate or rp


the lore and the command of rebels is on shoot on sight mindset immediately
the same applies to CP command mindset

we slice RP potential by half

 

[Provingmedusa]

honestly
its an odd question


Rebels and CPs at the moment have 0 purpose to be online at the same time atm

CPs have Rebels for pure PVP, Rebels have CPs for pure PVP
so like
if CPs roleplay, they probably have their favorite characters to rp with on THEIR side
just like rebels have on THEIR side.
thus they wait on their favorites to be online
thus 1 waits on another, and a whole faction kinda bobs into one time type of thing

Same thing about rebels
many people join as I do, and sometimes I do when someone else is

we're all weaved in one another





so like, Rebel and CP side...
have no RP purpose to be online at the same time
CPs rp with each other, Rebels RP with each other

Ive never seen ANY OPPORTUNITY other than my own self lovely attempts, to have any RP related to CPs from rebel side, from non hostility parts.
And it seems like something makes CPs strict about being a bit more flexible with other than CPs, in RP.
like they're still in slavery days, when they see a citizen they cannot be any dynamic beyond "ur a stranger, thats it"

seems like they reserve their rp to their faction,
(which I assume its something lore wise, cuz if it is how it is, then thats the ongoing story??? idk)

As much as I tried to socialize as a non combine citizen with combine
mista fisherman
it always results in its weird dissonance of pointless hostility

its like im talking to NPCs programmed to reply basic commands with 0 thought about interaction potential rp and make something interesting for both sides out of an interaction.
other than CP sees citizen = Either hostility or Ignore cuz no hostility/ search.
Still no concept of a human interacting with another human, DESPITE THEM BEING 2 DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES.

there's no desire it seems, at all

despite the fact that we've BEYOND and POST episode 2, that CPs had enough moments to rethink about humanity and how they interact with them, even if they dont want to renounce their ways,
that not all is just an object or paper to them and they are the only human life, all else is either with me or against me.

it's like the current lore currently forces this brainless conflict between CP side and Rebel side.


Rebels have 0 need for CPs, other than random pew pew
CPs have 0 need for Rebels, other than random pew pew.

never even thought about CP number when Im on at citizen
i bet CPs never thought about rebel number when they're on either

who cares, (at the current RP circumstances)





There's no one that tried more than me, to have a lovely CP interaction.
Yet despite that,
no matter what happened IC
if there's SUDDEN POTENTIAL to escalate hostility?
All previous what happened, goes out the window.

It's like u try to make a friend, but he is unable to react to you more than a wall,
u have a few lovely moments
then something happens, no memory of lovely moments U ENEMY, I DO U UNGOOD TO YOU NOW.
0 thought

cuz CP side has different perspectives than a Rebel does
i dont judge

then it means that something lorewise is broken

so, rebels dont need cps, and cps dont need rebels.

so much so that i didnt even think about CPs number at all since I began playing


JUST YESTERDAY WE HAD FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH CPS UNDERGROUND IN NEW EVENT MAP
why was it immediate rdm simulator? on FIRST encounter of a POTENTIAL cp sighting
i was immediately gunned down despite being unarmed from a far tunnel of pure darkness.
"potential rebel assumption"

There was no attempt to even communicate or rp


the lore and the command of rebels is on shoot on sight mindset immediately
the same applies to CP command mindset

we slice RP potential by half

Honestly, I skimmed over this but I see what you mean. I would love to expand who I can RP with to more than just my own faction but it's pretty much impossible most of the time outside of the odd refugee I see.

 

[Thood74]

I agree with Alexander

I think opportunities for non-combat interactions are extremely limited because

1. As established, they're both open combatants with incompatible goals. They're never going to come to peace since the Combine want to reestablish occupation for various reasons on the level of the individual and Lambda wants to not have Earth slowly drained of resources and humanity made into transhuman soldiers for the potential gain of a small class of people who will either achieve the chimeric dream of retaining their humanity and fertility to continue the conventional existence of the species in relative comfort or be made into fully sentient slugs to command other worlds as sleeping philosophers in cooperation with traitors to their species.

2. Overwatch is rarely going to be put into a place to be captured, ESPECIALLY transhumans but CPs too due to deploying in PTs whenever they leave the base with no long term penalties for not surrendering whereas captured rebels are doomed to become noncharacter stalkers with strict fraternization guidelines for cops until that point unless they escape.

3. The Refugee Camp the Combine has established is mostly an afterthought, with no means for refugees to become cops - a potential IC pipeline for cop recruitment, as well as a strong opening for roleplay between new cops and their more experienced counterparts as well as former friends in the refugee populus - and refugees not being utilised in support roles due to the Combine being purposefully dehumanised which having an openly human support arm would contradict.

FYI I wasn't suggesting point 1 was something that should or even could be changed, in case that needed clarificationsimman

 

[Alexander The Great]

If CPs are meant to be a pure antagonists to Rebellion,
and non Combine humans (aka anyone who doesnt choose CP faction) to be pure Rebellion associated.

That is pure oppositions. Antagonism from both sides.
THAT powerful of an opposition that S2K is the primary interaction, logically by lore. - tf2 red vs blu style, no questions asked as it is now.

if that's the intention of how we want it to be
nothing should be changed indeed

then the whole faction balance scheme as it goes rn, will remain as it is


thing is, i noticed there are 2 types of RPers mostly
those that like the depth of a deeper lvl of interaction roleplay- as we call, passive rp.
they like it more Family style, developing relationships, deep thoughts, interactions,
less combat

and those that enjoy the depth that combat rp provides, - as we call action rp.
they like it more warstory types, militaristic thought, and post operation rp and the results of action that occured.
less deep passive rp, less open personality characters

each enjoy their own pick


now,
it depends to what direction do we want the Combine to Citizen side - interaction to go.
(citizen of what tho, im just a normal human in this world, there are no cities anymore, this concept is obsolete in ep2, its like i'd call an american today a settler, sure they were in the past, but now they arent)



At the moment.
If you're a (how can we call a NORMAL HUMAN BEING, that isnt an active rebel?) citizen(???)
you still are considered a rebel.

I just joined Nebulous, I made a ''citizen'', I'm instantly a rebel. By proximity, by whatever gear can be considered?
(despite the world being infested with xen, citizen with gun = rebel to cps. and not survivor.)

Combine CANNOT see a human on earth, as not rebel, in terms of RP AT THE MOMENT.

cuz we all mingle together, and from CP perspective we are all one.
Even if you're dressed in normal clothes and got a gun hidden in your inventory, (not visible)
CP perspective will still consider you a potential hazard, and you will get searched.

so who in the right mind, a normal rebel, would even seek interaction with combine?
if tools for survival like weapons, in an infested decaying world
is considered ungood

should a man be naked in an apocalyptic world then?


if we want to enable somehow RP between NORMAL MAN and Combine faction,
we must add a NEW concept of thinking, to CP perspective over NON COMBINE humans.

=
Normal survivor in post EP2 environment
since we have no cities, we GOTTA EXPECT MAN TO LIVE SOMEHOW
so why consider those that by chance exist with rebels cuz economy, to be rebel? (obv rebels will have economy with them, war pays, and supplies)


but as long as the concept of S2K between factions stands as default
why are we surprised between the numbers of factions?

its an rp server, and the factions are just meant to be free pvp for one another
so when im actually here to rp and not pvp (on a not so smooth pvp experience)

i'll most def avoid cp, if i am a normal man

 

[Numbers]

since we have no cities

btw i dont know who perpetuated this since ep2 does not mean postoccupation, cities still exist, its just 17 that went down

 

[Alexander The Great]

btw i dont know who perpetuated this since ep2 does not mean postoccupation, cities still exist, its just 17 that went down

yeah, but is the term citizen really a thing in normal human perspective?
especially the side of the story that the server takes place in
maybe from combine perspective, since they dwell in their benefactor's ideology still



but come on,
a city citizen isn't anything but a backround to people atm
and if Shit hits the fan irl, aka a drastic change takes place, people forget their roots real fast, and stop associating with them

if its a common sight to see a survivor in all the ruins that we travel through (and experienced thru all the map changes and events),
for both factions
where does the term citizen even come into play, but a mere past memory?

when ppl got more on their plate atm IC to not die, i doubt anyone even remembers citizen being a word of the past

 

[Mute]

these are just my thoughts but disclaimer i havent played since launch cause ive been busy with work


i think this is just a continuation of an issue that was never really solved since it started back in earlier iterations, being that if rebels and cops have no reason to interact, they wont

the servers landscapes changed a shit ton in the newest iteration, before the server was generally split into the city (being the main area) and the rebel area (canals, rb6, outlands, sewers etc., areas with little to no combine presence)

If left to their own devices rebels would just never interact with cops and would be relegated to their own seperate bubble, disconnected from the rest of the server. there were systems in place that forced interaction, like having to go to the city to retireve supplies and money, where cops and rebels would have to interact due to the nature of the city


I think this pendelum was always present, as cops would log in earlier in the day alongside city players, theyd do their shit and go about their day while the rebel areas were sparsley populated. Later on rebels would log on around the time the city died down, cops would get off since there was nothing going on, and rebels enjoyed this relative peace where they didnt need to interact with cops or fear retaliation

-

In this iteration both sides are relegated to their own RP bubbles, as far as I know aside from the opening event there has never again been massive RP cooperation between the two sides. Every single scenario is boiled down to s2k the moment one side spots another since thats the nature of the server, and during all other times they stick to interacting in their own base since rp isnt possible in the field

cops and rebels have no way to interact nor any need to interact, they play independently, two servers exist until they clash and then its over. If they survive the clash and get caught death is guaranteed anyway

if you get caught as a rebel you get stalkerized, there is no other avaliable playstyle, someone will fight to stalkerize or execute you

if you get caught as a cop you will get skinned alive, there is no other avaliable playstyle, someone will fight to stick you on a stake

-

and so the playercount swings, cops and rebels, whether they know consciously or subconsciously have times they know other people will be on. Cops are stuck in the base so they get off once they know they cant get out anyway (PT leaders leave), rebels have some relative freedom since they dont need permission to leave so they stick around and wander later on in the night

cops especially are a bit fucked since their bases are small and theres only so much shit you can do



tldr; two servers basically exist, the cops server and the rebels server. they dont need to interact with eachother outside of s2k

once the rp is done for the day and the skirmishes are over, their friends DC and so do their leaders cops are stuck in their side of the server with nothing to do. they dc out of boredom

rebels dont have this problem and tend to stick around since they dont obey any similar rules about the outside world

due to the servers history that prob stretches back years cops and rebels also have learned predetermined times they get on at where they know they will have something to do with someone, for cops this is earlier on in the day and for rebels this is later on

 

[Alexander The Great]

@Numbers
check this out for example

first encounter.

We had moved into a new unknown region,
so did the Combine, new lands, who knows WHO dwells there?
This was SUCH A GOLDEN MOMENT for an awesome Combine first interaction face to face ROLEPLAY
both factions face unknown circumstances, both had no idea that we'd meet


WHY was this RP OPPORTUNITY, turned into RDM? legit random death match

Both sides, are clueless what they'd meet in the tunnel after travelling distance, stuck in a metro
instead of acting like a REAL HUMAN would
though very weary and careful..
meeting whoever made that noise, without magical ooc assumptions that its MY SWORN ENEMY I CAN S2K (kinda meta game tbh)
and immediately desire to murder.

nah, ooc call of duty moment ensued

even if someone assumed that maybe combine was at that side,
notice the 3rd personing from the CP side, that mowed down an IC curiously unarmed, in a completely dark tunnel where u are unlikely to be seen.

U see that in the last moment the cp helmet pops up, confirming it was the good ol' third person hugging a corner, to gun someone down efficiently

so oocly,
both sides automatically assume pvp and call of duty against one another
there's no rp in it at all

 

[Provingmedusa]

@Numbers
check this out for example

first encounter.

We had moved into a new unknown region,
so did the Combine, new lands, who knows WHO dwells there?
This was SUCH A GOLDEN MOMENT for an awesome Combine first interaction face to face ROLEPLAY
both factions face unknown circumstances, both had no idea that we'd meet


WHY was this RP OPPORTUNITY, turned into RDM? legit random death match

Both sides, are clueless what they'd meet in the tunnel after travelling distance, stuck in a metro
instead of acting like a REAL HUMAN would
though very weary and careful..
meeting whoever made that noise, without magical ooc assumptions that its MY SWORN ENEMY I CAN S2K (kinda meta game tbh)
and immediately desire to murder.

nah, ooc call of duty moment ensued

even if someone assumed that maybe combine was at that side,
notice the 3rd personing from the CP side, that mowed down an IC curiously unarmed, in a completely dark tunnel where u are unlikely to be seen.

U see that in the last moment the cp helmet pops up, confirming it was the good ol' third person hugging a corner, to gun someone down efficiently

so oocly,
both sides automatically assume pvp and call of duty against one another
there's no rp in it at all

Using third person is a thing that's recommended unfortunately. I don't use it outside of RP Scenarios. You being shot immediately is probably for good measure considering they saw an unchained vortigaunt.

 

[Alexander The Great]

Using third person is a thing that's recommended unfortunately. I don't use it outside of RP Scenarios. You being shot immediately is probably for good measure considering they saw an unchained vortigaunt.

ill tell u the truth
there are 2 states of consciousness that work here

when u really want rp,
u really put aside any opportunity to murder someone, and see all as an opportunity to have rich rp
interactions, solid in person RP, with the least idea of doing something that is just goofy pvp and benefits no one.
U just think differently
I not for a moment thought that a ''possibility'' of someone being there, since no bullet was fired prior
would equal immediate decision to murder a random stranger.

u put OOC aside, and think FROM the character IC, what would he think, experience,
which really makes u play differently, with RP in your mind
with cool events unfolding on the way

rather than seeking out ways to cut (rp) it out as fast as possible



and the 2nd state
where its more about ooc situation

you cant even consider rp, it doesnt even pop to mind
only reasons why OOC action should be ensued
aka murder, pvp, or why someone is a threat for me
bcuz when u focus on a thing, on a perspective, u can only think from that perspective. its normal, a man cant be double minded.

One that doesnt love RP truly
will find any reason to justify why that moment couldnt been turned into quality RP
that would be memorable for many

and would find reason why I shouldve shot you




in the end
we're all just characters, actors, in a play
and sometimes even pulling the strings on our own ooc gain, to make a FUN THEATRICAL PLAY
is necessary

 

[Ron]

@Numbers
check this out for example

first encounter.

We had moved into a new unknown region,
so did the Combine, new lands, who knows WHO dwells there?
This was SUCH A GOLDEN MOMENT for an awesome Combine first interaction face to face ROLEPLAY
both factions face unknown circumstances, both had no idea that we'd meet


WHY was this RP OPPORTUNITY, turned into RDM? legit random death match

Both sides, are clueless what they'd meet in the tunnel after travelling distance, stuck in a metro
instead of acting like a REAL HUMAN would
though very weary and careful..
meeting whoever made that noise, without magical ooc assumptions that its MY SWORN ENEMY I CAN S2K (kinda meta game tbh)
and immediately desire to murder.

nah, ooc call of duty moment ensued

even if someone assumed that maybe combine was at that side,
notice the 3rd personing from the CP side, that mowed down an IC curiously unarmed, in a completely dark tunnel where u are unlikely to be seen.

U see that in the last moment the cp helmet pops up, confirming it was the good ol' third person hugging a corner, to gun someone down efficiently

so oocly,
both sides automatically assume pvp and call of duty against one another
there's no rp in it at all

You had your light off in a dark tunnel after a vort just went by, crouching and slowly approaching. I can say with 100% certainty the cops were unable to see if you had a gun or not.

 

[Alexander The Great]

You had your light off in a dark tunnel after a vort just went by, crouching and slowly approaching. I can say with 100% certainty the cops were unable to see if you had a gun or not.

still
why murder, in a case of uncertainty

in a brand new environment, of who knows whos there

cant vorts by chance find a brand new life in a tunnel? who says (from CP perspective) its those SAME REBELS we always hate?


I cant see any rational human that would choose murder immediately, in a real life event
this is RP after all

is this duke nukem gotta murder em all RP?




also note, that I saw no visual of ANYONE
thus, I was being OOCly seen, thru the sixth eye, then gunned down.

to confirm a visual of a threat, at least stand infront of him (in realism at least)

so this was pure ooc moment

 

[Ron]

still
why murder, in a case of uncertainty

in a brand new environment, of who knows whos there

cant vorts by chance find a brand new life in a tunnel? who says (from CP perspective) its those SAME REBELS we always hate?


I cant see any rational human that would choose murder immediately, in a real life event
this is RP after all

is this duke nukem gotta murder em all RP?

Because we can get 4 shot by someone with an AK (and have many times before). So, yes, we are going to err on the side of caution and not take that chance. In the future I suggest /y and /mel to indicate your intentions rather than wordlessly crouching in a dark tunnel towards us after a vort just went by.

 

[Hunk]

In all honesty i have absolutely no idea Numbers my friend

 

[Hunk]

Well perhaps it might be cus each faction has such separate 'objectives' if u can call em thst

 

[bilack]

The population swing is in my eyes a direct consequence of a lack of actual roleplay between cops and rebels. If there were more non-combat interactions between the two, you'd have both online simultaneously.

Expanding on what Alex has mentioned, I personally hop off every time there's like 5 rebels, (half of them unrecognised to me IC) and 15 cops online. Because what's the point? There's nearly no roleplay between cops and rebels. The only roleplay is getting captured and then coming back to base missing a limb, so that small bit of roleplay (if you for some reason don't pick NLR instead of capture) literally comes at a *cost.* No incentive then to roleplay with cops. So it's back to S2K all day.

I only feel like playing when there's instead 5 cops on and 15 rebels on, 'cause then I have actual people to roleplay with instead of shooting guns 24/7. At the moment the most roleplay you can do is inter-faction roleplay.

And so it swings around like a pendulum, cops hop on and roleplay with each other earlier in the day, the odd few rebels come on, see there's an army of cops on, they decide to leave because there's no one to roleplay with as 80% of the server is comprised of cops at that time of day and going anywhere outside of the protected rebel area will lead to getting shot by a patrol

Eventually cops hop off and rebels come on to roleplay with each other later in the day, same thing, cops notice that most of the server is comprised of rebels and they leave because what roleplay are they going to get with rebels when the norm is S2K and there is no incentive to RP with the other side?


So there's the root of your problem. How do you go about fixing it?

More roleplay between the two.

 

[RedMan]

still
why murder, in a case of uncertainty
in a brand new environment, of who knows whos there

If you saw a tall black figure at the end of the dark corridor inside your house. Would you be willing to approach it and talk to it? I think you are forgetting that the entire tunnel complex is engulfed in darkness, the same tunnels crawling with savages, zombies, and other dangerous entities that are yet to be discovered.

I understand your intentions, and you are not in the wrong at all. However, we need to think realistically rather than trying to force things to happen.

 

[Rabid]

I think the problem of RP interactions on both sides is tough, because there's not a great deal of middle ground or reasons to unite against a common foe - which might be a cool plotline in-and-of-itself.

Hey @Numbers remember what never happened on C24? Idea there...

 

['77 East]

It would be nice if we were actually able to talk to the other side without rampant murders, executions or vicious bouts of "ur a collaborator!!! you talked to someone for 2 seconds!!! you must die!!!"

case in point being the relative peace we had with the gas station DMZ until some idiot tried to kidnap one of the bystanders there, which meant insurgents showed up to save their friend & fend off cops, which resulted in the entire place exploding

 

[Thood74]

to be honest, we're fighting an uphill battle to fix this problem of incompatibility between the two factions. Valve never had to even contemplate the Combine and Resistance not immediately shooting eachother outside of a hostage taking scenario. And its fairly obvious why. The totalitarian, alien system cooperating with or not instantly destroying underdog resistance movements? It's a bit mad. However, the introduction of joinable civilian factions affiliated with the Universal Union in CityRP that permitted more individual freedom outside of outright going rogue added opportunities that wouldn't be possible with Overwatch alone. Including the Civil Authority in some situations. But this was still limited by the fact these factions had no power over the security apparatus or wider combine goals and now isn't possible full stop on a battlefield with no place for noncombatants.

Internal faction RP is the only type of roleplay thats really viable. Violence is the only medium ever considered for the two interacting with eachother and this is by design. DMZs are an OOCly unenforced player initative that could be ended on the will of a single man from either side and kind of go against the whole dehumanisation of the Combine thing which is why all cops wear masks, have taglines and are effectively encouraged to not view their enemies as human. Not like some or even most rebels wouldn't also immediately execute the first metrocop they get their hands on out of combat even against efforts of people who'd rather not execute them. Some would even consider treating a metrocop as anything but a walking, talking target equivalent to being a target yourself. The schizophrenic scandi who made a conscious effort to stab a captive cop to death while people tried to pull them off of him comes to mind.

Even Refugees, the closest one could get to Rebel - Combine passive outside of captivity are more of a natural side effect that not everybody starts out with a gun and armour than something that was planned for from the start as the original design papers show and they're massively limited in what they can do.

Attempts to induce more regular breakouts of violence could get server pop up more regularly on both sides but still won't fix the problem of the two factions not really interacting with eachother outside of violence. Feel free to disagree if you think you have a miracle reform idea you'd like to share.