Suggestion Wartime Progression Overhaul

[MaXenzie]

THE WARTIME PROGRESSION OVERHAUL
>>>>>LINK HERE<<<<<
In cooperation with @Numbers

WHAT IS THIS?
This is an economical wartime progression and tier system designed to mitigate the amount of Admin Oversight and Intervention is required on the server. The acquisition of goods will be led by the players, for the players. It will incentivize leaving your spawn and entering No Man's Land, to forge your own outposts and production facilities. It will encourage teamwork and cooperation. It will encourage Combat with Purpose. It will allow for new roleplay situations. It will create discourse amongst characters, and fuel the story through player action.

The mechanics allow for assymetric warfare between the Resistance and the Combine.
The Resistance will be encouraged to leave their spawn in order to hunt down supply crates, and smash them for construction materials (new material scripts!) which will allow them to construct buildings.
The Combine will be encouraged to leave their spawn in order to mitigate the Resistance's acquisition of construction materials, while slowly acquiring their own via Dispatch.

ASYMMETRIC WARFARE
The Resistance are a fast-growing, decentralized force, able to quickly acquire large amounts of scrappy weaponry and cobbled-together armaments for their forces. If left unchecked, the Resistance can become a powerful force, and quickly.
The Combine are slow, yet steady in their growth. Pound-for-pound, the Combine are stronger in terms of production and weaponry, but the centralized Dispatcher modules force them to create a Forward Operating Base within No Man's Land, and protect it dearly.

Each faction has their pro's and con's, and different avenues of approach, both tactically, and strategically.
Combat becomes both more costly and impactful, but is also more reliably recovered from in a loss. Instead of relying on an admin to arrive and hand out weapons, you will know that you will recover from your loss in a given amount of time, instead of hoping for the pity of an unforseen force.

Sabotage is heavily encouraged, with both factions able to destroy the other's facilities and buildings in order to prevent them from gaining more power over the other. Detonation charges will be a scripted item that is capable of destroying enemy buildings reliably and consistently, without admin intervention or oversight. The only limitation is playercount (and whether an event is ongoing).

AN EVOLVING FORM OF COMBAT
While at the moment, the system presented is barebones, showing only the core, essential facilities to both factions, there will be the means to add more depth to the system.

The system is balanced around Tier III (Tier 3) being the baseline, with factions occasionally jumping up to Tier IV, capitalizing on the bonus of it, before their opposition destroys their facility and pushes them back down to the baseline. Sometimes, you may even suffer a crippling loss, and drop to Tier II.

But there will always be a safety net. Tier II buildings and below can be built directly within your spawn. Rebels will always have guns and ammo. Combine will always be well-armed.

And when the map changes, you will get to plan a new strategy. Perhaps the Resistance will rush for production, and hope to get their expensive, high-tier facilities going quickly. Or, they will build many smaller gunsmiths, and aim to arm as many bluesuits as possible with whatever they can scrounge together.
Perhaps the Combine focus heavily on Synth support. Perhaps they push for OTA deployments. Or they simply arm every Cop with the best they can afford, and patrol endlessly, trying to stifle the Resistance's advancement, while progressing their own.

A YET UNTESTED SYSTEM
This system is brand new. Much of it is placeholder.

The prices and costs, for example, are purely, purely example, and are simply there to provide a baseline idea of how the progression system works. The highest tier things will be locked behind admin approval, at the very least initially (Larval Extract, Rebel APCs, High-Tier Synths). This is a proof of concept, not the final design.
This is only Draft 2, but Numbers pushed me to post the suggestion now, instead of further improving it, since he thought it'd be pointless perfecting the system if people didn't like it regardless.

Thank you for reading.​

Spoiler: mandatory format

Suggestion: add the above


Why it would be worth adding: numbers thinks its a good idea
Necessary content: ron's sweat and tears

 

[Numbers]

yeah I think this is a really good idea guys

also I worked on this

also it's badass

 

[Numbers]

PUT THOUGHTS ON THREAD NOT ON DISCORDSS

 

[Generally Fruity]

players one minute: cmb vs rebels has gotten boring..

players the next:


this isn't an indictment of the OP btw it's a good idea

 

[MaXenzie]

players one minute: cmb vs rebels has gotten boring..

players the next:


this isn't an indictment of the OP btw it's a good idea

i knew i wasnt going to get rid of S2K, so i decided to make S2K palatable
by giving it purpose and meaning beyond "we see cops/rebels, so we are obliged to shoot because they will likely shoot if we dont anyway"

 

[Numbers]

for the record, this suggestion isn't looking for you to rate the chances of whether or not it will be developed

we posted this because we wanted criticism on how to implement this correctly, should the burden be taken on

 

[MaXenzie]

for the record, this suggestion isn't looking for you to rate the chances of whether or not it will be developed

we posted this because we wanted criticism on how to implement this correctly, should the burden be taken on

sometimes i feel like the pessimism is self-inflicting.

nothing happens because of the amount of people that go "yeah there's no actual problems with the suggestion, it just wont happen."

 

[Generally Fruity]

reading the doc, i see lots of fun and reliable mechanics that have zero roleplay basis whatsoever.

i find serverwide announcing of a Det Charge placement odd and unneeded. it breaks immersion and removes the responsibility of vigilance from the players, as well as eliminating the possibility of clandestine sabotage, etc. if i had to pick one thing to excise from this suggestion completely, it would be that.

Det Charges should be reclassified to include a few different kinds of explosives, each with differing stats. examples: Plastic Explosives can be armed quickly and the timer started remotely, but cannot be crafted; IEDs take longer to arm and must be activated manually, but can be crafted; etc.

Building Tiers should be kept as a strictly OOC classification system for determining the weight/importance of a particular building or facility. there should be, under no circumstances, any bleeding of this into IC.

this part is more of an editorial, but i also think there should also be no limits to how many buildings a group can take control of, nor any restrictions on who can contest what. any tension this creates needs to be treated and dealt with ICly.

above all else, this cannot be just another tidal phase of team deathmatch back-and-forth that has no IC consequences. granted its implementation as written would add another gameplay avenue to keep players engaged. at the same time, we're an rp server, not a lite-rp-while-you-wait-for-the-next-match server

 

[Numbers]

above all else, this cannot be just another tidal phase of team deathmatch back-and-forth that has no IC consequences. granted its implementation as written would add another gameplay avenue to keep players engaged. at the same time, we're an rp server, not a lite-rp-while-you-wait-for-the-next-match server

i just want to say that part of this is implemented to stop shit like admin-assisted teleports happening out of the blue, without players earning it themselves, that later on have impact in the decision of a battle that result in a map's outcome

for instance, city 24, people being teleported straight to their objective behind the nexus, to destroy the combine mortar that later let them better siege the city/nexus - but i don't think anybody actually had a larval extract with them

 

[MaXenzie]

reading the doc, i see lots of fun and reliable mechanics that have zero roleplay basis whatsoever.

i find serverwide announcing of a Det Charge placement odd and unneeded. it breaks immersion and removes the responsibility of vigilance from the players, as well as eliminating the possibility of clandestine sabotage, etc. if i had to pick one thing to excise from this suggestion completely, it would be that.

Det Charges should be reclassified to include a few different kinds of explosives, each with differing stats. examples: Plastic Explosives can be armed quickly and the timer started remotely, but cannot be crafted; IEDs take longer to arm and must be activated manually, but can be crafted; etc.

Building Tiers should be kept as a strictly OOC classification system for determining the weight/importance of a particular building or facility. there should be, under no circumstances, any bleeding of this into IC.

this part is more of an editorial, but i also think there should also be no limits to how many buildings a group can take control of, nor any restrictions on who can contest what. any tension this creates needs to be treated and dealt with ICly.

above all else, this cannot be just another tidal phase of team deathmatch back-and-forth that has no IC consequences. granted its implementation as written would add another gameplay avenue to keep players engaged. at the same time, we're an rp server, not a lite-rp-while-you-wait-for-the-next-match server

ta for the critique, will go through it

reading the doc, i see lots of fun and reliable mechanics that have zero roleplay basis whatsoever.

i agree that there is, in-effect, no inherent roleplay basis to this feature. no one's forcing you to /me building the gunsmith, for example. this is predominantly because i dont like non-essential roleplay that provides nothing to a story. busy work, basically.

however, i feel there'd be a lot of derived roleplay from it. due to Tier 3+ buildings needing to be built out in No Man's Land, people will be encouraged to make outposts, FOBs, and ensure roads and travel paths are safe

people will discuss what their plan of action should be (hopefully IC and not in discords) and how they should best disrupt their enemy, while ensuring they themselves cant be disrupted.

the mechanics are there to fuel independent roleplay scenes and actions, but not provide roleplay in and of themselves. i believe RP that is obligatory isn't fun, because it just becomes busywork (see: workshifts)

i find serverwide announcing of a Det Charge placement odd and unneeded. it breaks immersion and removes the responsibility of vigilance from the players, as well as eliminating the possibility of clandestine sabotage, etc. if i had to pick one thing to excise from this suggestion completely, it would be that.

so i was thinking on this for a while and opted for this initial approach predominantly because it was safer. one issue i had with this project was imagining how anal the cops and rebels would get in the forums over things like low-pop building destruction, or destroying buildings during a rebel-centric event, or while everyone is otherwise completely unable to affect it
i went for the most cautious option because i can always make it more lenient in the next draft
better to loosen pre-restrictions than add new ones

Det Charges should be reclassified to include a few different kinds of explosives, each with differing stats. examples: Plastic Explosives can be armed quickly and the timer started remotely, but cannot be crafted; IEDs take longer to arm and must be activated manually, but can be crafted; etc.

sounds like a decent idea tbh
plastic explosives could totally arrive from events or other circumstances too, encouraging exploration and further participation

Building Tiers should be kept as a strictly OOC classification system for determining the weight/importance of a particular building or facility. there should be, under no circumstances, any bleeding of this into IC.

Tiers will be pseudo-IC for cops, which is why the naming conventions for the Dispatchers are the level of stability the region is at
"The Region is Socio-Stable" in-effect means the cops are at Tier 1, and Dispatch is unwilling to provide Overwatch support

for rebels, it's completely OOC
you just upgrade your scrap gunsmith into a gunsmith, and now it's a better building. no one should be going "that's a tier 1 gunsmith"

this part is more of an editorial, but i also think there should also be no limits to how many buildings a group can take control of, nor any restrictions on who can contest what. any tension this creates needs to be treated and dealt with ICly.

there shouldnt be a OOC limit, but there'll be the ability to contest buildings for rebels
if a building owner stops playing for a prolonged period and hasn't given anyone access, you can ask an admin to give you ownership of the building so you can fish out the things it's been accumulating

similarly, if there's huge disputes over land, you could see genuine intra-rebel fighting for ownership of facilities, and cells becoming hostile to each other

above all else, this cannot be just another tidal phase of team deathmatch back-and-forth that has no IC consequences. granted its implementation as written would add another gameplay avenue to keep players engaged. at the same time, we're an rp server, not a lite-rp-while-you-wait-for-the-next-match server

consequences were a HUGE part of this, which is why everything is daily
you lose a S2K fight with cops? you lose all your guns n shit, sure, but you know you will get them back. it just takes time.

it should encourage less random, sporadic S2K, and encourage more organized raids and attacks with stockpiling occuring beforehand.
the rebels could wait a week, save up 7 charges and load up all their men with weapons and then attack
if that attack fails, that's a week of prep blundered
huge consequences, but not utterly unrecoverable bullshit

 

[Gyarik]

I'll keep this short since I can't bother with using forums on my phone.

I love the idea and how it's presented, we should definitely see how it can be perfected to fit the current state of the server and, one day, make this actually work.

While it would fix the issue with s2k being, as of today, mindless and mostly unnecessary (bar the blacksite-related conflicts), I do not see how effectively this incorporates with roleplay and, more specifically, IC consequences: The system lays a good framework for proper, unified gameplay mechanics and giving OOC reasons to make players explore and settle outside of their respective safe areas, it feels like roleplay itself would not be affected as much besides from "hey we should like make x in y", "guys let's make an outpost here" or "oh no this place got obliterated". In short, my main concern is that such system offers RP premises, but no substance, although I'm not exactly sure how this can be amended without just relying on "well, gotta be a good player and rp it" (which, mind you, is a completely fine mindset but not everyone is the same).

 

[MaXenzie]

I'll keep this short since I can't bother with using forums on my phone.

I love the idea and how it's presented, we should definitely see how it can be perfected to fit the current state of the server and, one day, make this actually work.

While it would fix the issue with s2k being, as of today, mindless and mostly unnecessary (bar the blacksite-related conflicts), I do not see how effectively this incorporates with roleplay and, more specifically, IC consequences: The system lays a good framework for proper, unified gameplay mechanics and giving OOC reasons to make players explore and settle outside of their respective safe areas, it feels like roleplay itself would not be affected as much besides from "hey we should like make x in y", "guys let's make an outpost here" or "oh no this place got obliterated". In short, my main concern is that such system offers RP premises, but no substance, although I'm not exactly sure how this can be amended without just relying on "well, gotta be a good player and rp it" (which, mind you, is a completely fine mindset but not everyone is the same).

truthfully i see S2K as entirely separate to roleplay and antithetical to roleplay

if i could, i'd offer a S2RP suggestion instead

this is predominantly meant to give the S2K bouts more context and meaning, rather than make them shakespearian drama pieces

it shouldnt tread on the toes of RP outside of it, and events can still function, and passiveRP can exist still (and be improved by outposts being more likely to be made)

and, brand new characters have an immediate recognizable goal to ingratiate themselves in the setting. a simple one, but with risks attached (the combine trying to stop them)
"I'm a brand new bluesuit and i dont know what to do."
"Go out and gather up some crates so we can make you some stuff"
"okay"

 

[Numbers]

I'll keep this short since I can't bother with using forums on my phone.

I love the idea and how it's presented, we should definitely see how it can be perfected to fit the current state of the server and, one day, make this actually work.

While it would fix the issue with s2k being, as of today, mindless and mostly unnecessary (bar the blacksite-related conflicts), I do not see how effectively this incorporates with roleplay and, more specifically, IC consequences: The system lays a good framework for proper, unified gameplay mechanics and giving OOC reasons to make players explore and settle outside of their respective safe areas, it feels like roleplay itself would not be affected as much besides from "hey we should like make x in y", "guys let's make an outpost here" or "oh no this place got obliterated". In short, my main concern is that such system offers RP premises, but no substance, although I'm not exactly sure how this can be amended without just relying on "well, gotta be a good player and rp it" (which, mind you, is a completely fine mindset but not everyone is the same).

the quality of roleplay on the server is a different problem that requires different solutions

this is just a system to end all staff arguments, standardizes player weapon acquisition, eliminate most bias in situations where there once was admin ambiguity

 

[Deleted member 7576]

i love lambda wars

 

[boots]

I hope this can be implemented rather soon. I'd prefer we add a version of this to the server that the developers can build in a short time, and then work upon it as a foundation, rather than trying to get it perfect the first time around.

 

[STUCK IN A CAKE]

Sounds cool. I would very much like to see it implemented

 

[Provingmedusa]

My thoughts/ critique on this are not too dissimilar to other people's concerns or feedback.

I like this idea, even if it may "Lambda Wars" the server up like how Ovxy inferred. Giving the players this proper agency to progress and make decisions on what they want.

I've already asked about this with @MaXenzie in a DM but considering Numbers seems to actively respond to feedback too, I'll just reiterate.
As an OTA player, I'm concerned on what they will actually DO until the CP's hit Tier 3. There are players in the OTA who only really want to play that character and some people may feel blueballed or cockblocked from RPing and playing as that Soldier.

On top of this, their arsenal would be dented until, or even IF, the faction reaches Tier 4. I love Ron for making the PSMG actually usable, or I might just be selfish and want to use the Carbine/Others use their Cert weapons but that's what stuck out to me the most.

Sorta just regurgitating what others have said, it'd be a very cool new system to give S2K 'meaning' but I feel like this'll have only a marginal positive impact on RP. MaXenzie already replied to Gyarik saying that it's intended to essentially be a completely separate entity to RP but from the top of my head (and just from looking at this for what it is) the most RP people may get out of it is "We need X to build Y." or "We should build an Outpost at X for Y". Then, outside of this suggestions, there will always be deployment rules. There are not always enough CP's to do anything, even if it's defend a vital position and OTA isn't any better - It's a huge game of luck just to get 4 players without asking them.

I structured this horribly but just said what came to mind. Some of it might definitely look selfish, or that I'm projecting, but it's my immediate thoughts. I'd love to be reassured. Again, I like this suggestion, I just really HATE not knowing the specifics of certain things such as how the OTA would be impacted.

 

[MaXenzie]

My thoughts/ critique on this are not too dissimilar to other people's concerns or feedback.

I like this idea, even if it may "Lambda Wars" the server up like how Ovxy inferred. Giving the players this proper agency to progress and make decisions on what they want.

I've already asked about this with @MaXenzie in a DM but considering Numbers seems to actively respond to feedback too, I'll just reiterate.
As an OTA player, I'm concerned on what they will actually DO until the CP's hit Tier 3. There are players in the OTA who only really want to play that character and some people may feel blueballed or cockblocked from RPing and playing as that Soldier.

On top of this, their arsenal would be dented until, or even IF, the faction reaches Tier 4. I love Ron for making the PSMG actually usable, or I might just be selfish and want to use the Carbine/Others use their Cert weapons but that's what stuck out to me the most.

Sorta just regurgitating what others have said, it'd be a very cool new system to give S2K 'meaning' but I feel like this'll have only a marginal positive impact on RP. MaXenzie already replied to Gyarik saying that it's intended to essentially be a completely separate entity to RP but from the top of my head (and just from looking at this for what it is) the most RP people may get out of it is "We need X to build Y." or "We should build an Outpost at X for Y". Then, outside of this suggestions, there will always be deployment rules. There are not always enough CP's to do anything, even if it's defend a vital position and OTA isn't any better - It's a huge game of luck just to get 4 players without asking them.

I structured this horribly but just said what came to mind. Some of it might definitely look selfish, or that I'm projecting, but it's my immediate thoughts. I'd love to be reassured. Again, I like this suggestion, I just really HATE not knowing the specifics of certain things such as how the OTA would be impacted.

i'll leave it to @Numbers to flesh out how OTA fit in the system but my general idea was OTA hang about in nexus functioning as managers and a homeguard up until tier 3, wherein Dispatch goes "shit's fucked out there, arm up and get out there"

outside of that you'd be able to flag up and participate in events and generally roleplay
the tier restriction is there to make itself feel felt, particularly by the rebels, since the moment the combine do reach tier 3, everyone and their mum is going to flag on their OTA and go on runabout wrecking shit, and i think that'd be a suitably terrifying experience for the resistance

 

[Numbers]

There are not always enough CP's to do anything, even if it's defend a vital position and OTA isn't any better - It's a huge game of luck just to get 4 players without asking them.

Bases cannot be attacked (ideally, by code) if the opposing faction has too few in numbers – the rebels would need something different than a simple faction check - maybe a weapons check, not sure

As Maxenzie said, OTA should refrain from wrecking shit before rebels even acquire Tier 3, and if you want to go mopping the floor with people before reaching that point, play a cop – all OTA will be given a slot in civpro if this is implemented

 

[STUCK IN A CAKE]

If anything, OTA just get locked to MP7's? And limited deployments until higher tiers

also would love to see a 'Science' tree for rebels to get access to Gravity Gun charges and shit

3 Pulse Balls a day is way too much, especially when the alternative is 3 RPG Rockets a week