Resolved Băgăreţ's PK Appeal

[Rabid]

Lemee sum this up so we don't go in circles.

Should Bagaret be PK'd because a player OOCly consented to an action and chose the worst possible outcome and later used that to justify the death of the person who inflicted it? Especially when the action was used to save the two rebels from further harm?

I am not attacking Sassyy when I say this as I respect the dedication IC, I'm simply laying it out as it is.

That being said, strictly as a player, I support Bagaret being mutilated, shackled, whatever, from associating with the NG. But it just seems like a PK is extreme for an action that ultimately harmed nobody in practical terms and actually saved two characters from a potentially much worse interrogation.

 

[FreeSpy]

Lemee sum this up so we don't go in circles.

Should Bagaret be PK'd because a player OOCly consented to an action and chose the worst possible outcome and later used that to justify the death of the person who inflicted it? Especially when the action was used to save the two rebels from further harm?

I am not attacking Sassyy when I say this as I respect the dedication IC, I'm simply laying it out as it is.

That being said, strictly as a player, I support Bagaret being mutilated, shackled, whatever, from associating with the NG. But it just seems like a PK is extreme for an action that ultimately harmed nobody in practical terms and actually saved two characters from a potentially much worse interrogation.

a verdict will be looked at. just not tonight. By tomorrow end of day this will be solved (I will be at work 90% of tmr anyway which is why I am putting end of day as the time gate)

 

[Sil]

That being said, strictly as a player, I support Bagaret being mutilated, shackled, whatever, from associating with the NG. But it just seems like a PK is extreme for an action that ultimately harmed nobody in practical terms and actually saved two characters from a potentially much worse interrogation.

This part I am especially focused with.

I don't want it to be an NLR situation or things be voided. I just don't want to be PK'd; take the arm, the eye, the inevitable difficulty with vortessence due to an unplanned munitions-based lobotomy, that stuff's all coolio.

 

[bilack]

He was a civilian that, instead of abstaining from conflict, voluntarily fought against the resistance alongside the National Guard.

Does that mean I can PK any rebel who, instead of abstaining from the conflict, voluntarily fights against the National Guard alongside the resistance?

 

[Maytree]

so
ng affiliation shouldn't be pkable, but lambda should?

its not even full affiliation when it comes to lambda, it's just sympathies that can get you pkd
extremely retarded if you can't get PKd for actively aiding National Guard, going as far as shooting people with them, but liking lambda gets you hanged

now THAT will be a bad precedent to set

It seems like double standards to me

It wasn’t just Lambda affiliation. Berkoff repeatedly threatened and assaulted multiple officers with their lives ever since bringing him into the city. Berkoff assaulted Elijah when he was beating a Merchant trying to extort the NG to sell the president’s range, later followed with aiming his guns and threatening officers to let him take their POWs or he’ll shoot him. All of this happened whilst he wore that Lambda Armpatch.

 

[Deleted member 7576]

It wasn’t just Lambda affiliation. Berkoff repeatedly threatened and assaulted multiple officers with their lives ever since bringing him into the city. Berkoff assaulted Elijah when he was beating a Merchant trying to extort the NG to sell the president’s range, later followed with aiming his guns and threatening officers to let him take their POWs or he’ll shoot him. All of these actions were done whilst he wore that Lambda Armpatch.

ok stop getting off topic I said I have nothing to add

this is bagaret pk appeal not roger pk appeal

 

[Sil]

Does that mean I can PK any rebel who, instead of abstaining from the conflict, voluntarily fights against the National Guard alongside the resistance?

see they're dumbing this but this is a fair ask.

just because you're a rebel doesn't mean you should have some sort of immunity to this if others don't. if it's made a fair game that people who voluntarily fight alongside NG can be PK'd for that, then rebels who voluntarily fight against NG should also be able to be PK'd. can't have it be one sided

 

[Maytree]

ok stop getting off topic I said I have nothing to add

this is bagaret pk appeal not roger pk appeal

I’m pointing out that your comparison you created of “x person gets pked but person doesn’t” is non-existent in truth. Bagaret wasn’t like Berkoff, not entirely.

 

[Rabid]

I don't think there needs to be a discussion about that sort of thing, if only because rebels have teamed up with the NG more than once and have picked fights over the absolute stupidest of things like wearing masks when there are known undercover cops rolling around.

I think everyone agrees how dumb it would be to open up purely factional PK's in this sort of conflict in light of those sorts of things.

 

[Ricsow]

Not involved in any way, just wanted to say that Boris' player is @SmoothAsMilk since his character was mentioned a few times now but he wasn't

 

[Sil]

oh yeah also small little thing, cos i genuinely am unaware on the official bit of the matter

does the person with the PK auths have to be the one to deal out the actual 'kill', or can they 'kill' the person via getting others to do it for them?

 

[Rabid]

does the person with the PK auths have to be the one to deal out the actual 'kill', or can they 'kill' the person via getting others to do it for them?

You can use others, but you can't hire a hitman to do it for you.

So in CityRP terms, you can report a guy you have auths on to a cop and if the cop kills them, that's valid. But you can't go and hire a self-proclaimed hitman for money to carry it out.

 

[FreeSpy]

oh yeah also small little thing, cos i genuinely am unaware on the official bit of the matter

does the person with the PK auths have to be the one to deal out the actual 'kill', or can they 'kill' the person via getting others to do it for them?

In normal circumstances yes, but as claimed by Sassy this was a planned attack and Firebug stepped in to stop it. Unfortunately, others helped carry it out.

 

[Sil]

You can use others, but you can't hire a hitman to do it for you.

So in CityRP terms, you can report a guy you have auths on to a cop and if the cop kills them, that's valid. But you can't go and hire a self-proclaimed hitman for money to carry it out.

thank you for the clarification

In normal circumstances yes, but as claimed by Sassy this was a planned attack and Firebug stepped in to stop it. Unfortunately, others helped carry it out.

in that case, since two others stepped in to help, wouldn't their motives behind going through with it also be important so that their actions were done with valid meaning rather than just "was helping my friend"?

 

[SmoothAsMilk]

again for the last time I'm making it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT THE ACT OF BARGARET'S DEATH HAD PK AUTHS ACQURIED BY @Sassyy and not me and whoever roleplays Boris because a lot of people seem to think that I was the one who originally caused the death of this guy, he was already finished off (a magazine emptied into him) & had auths on him purely by @Sassyy

i will no longer comment on this appeal now unless an admin asks me something, talk to sassy please not me or boris

id prefer if anyone needed my side or more indepth explanations to hit me up via DMs than forums, im 100% on board to give any details that are needed, search me up on the rebel discord and msg me if im needed

 

[john]

all this is to say that bagaret should absolutely pay a price for the reputation he built for himself (any kind of injury/mutilation seems pretty fair, perhaps even an exile into the IZ with PK auths given if he is seen in the city by his enemies) and should definitely suffer from the worst excesses of mob justice

ye true he should be maimed but allowed to live knowing the consequences of continued action
flat pks are boring narratively

a better system from elsewhere ive played always presupposes grevious injury or a direct discussion about stopping x thing with the explicit threat of death if not followed through before any PK is valid. like the story buildup needs to be there and i think its missing here

 

[Sil]

ye true he should be maimed but allowed to live knowing the consequences of continued action
flat pks are boring narratively

a better system from elsewhere ive played always presupposes grevious injury or a direct discussion about stopping x thing with the explicit threat of death if not followed through before any PK is valid. like the story buildup needs to be there and i think its missing here

Yeah. I'm loving the narrative and that conflict, and the whole 'these people hate me because I worked with the Guard' is perfectly fine in my books. I don't want that part to be given some kind of pardon or immunity, cos that brutality aspect behind it makes for an awesome narrative and can bring up questions within rebels of "was it ethical that we did this" and such.

All I'm hoping for is that grievous injury/injuries to be applied instead of the flat PK, so I can actually RP that development and have great narrative.

 

[FreeSpy]

Alright. To wrap this thing up (because I am late on my own deadline), after consideration and a decently long chat with both Sassy and Rabid on this whole situation, I've come to the following conclusion

Bagaret will be exiled into the Infestation Zone with an extreme amount of injuries, and I mean extreme. To the point where:

- Vortal powers are completely cut off due to a lobotomization-like effort and the shackle application, and even if those shackles are removed the most that Bagaret would be able to do is flicker a light (with actual effort and tiredness that comes from accessing that limited power - Think of it like if a normal vort just stabilized a heavily injured human. No combat, nothing. If this is broken, this decision will be reverted and a PK will be applied.)

- A Blanket PK authorization if Bagaret breaks the exile, from both sides. This, while it may seem harsh, is to reinforce the fact that these are consequences.

- Physical injuries, to the extent of weakness, moderate motor function issues (i.e. unable to grip things with ease), an arm amputation (Player's choice which one, main arms, either left or right.)

- As per the lobotomizing situation, mental problems, memory loss and random speech (feel free to do with this as you will, I will not dictate how you roleplay this as I don't need to - Player's call, I just want there to be that trait)

I was originally going to deny this, but I believe with this compromise, the actions and events will still have a similar (albeit not as strong) effect akin of that of a full blown PK, and the story of what happened can live through both sides. Plus, I find a character that goes through this more valuable for roleplay, especially given the circumstances of reasons and situations (which, in all honesty are pretty muddy and would require me to debate myself for an eternity to find a resolution to the dillemma)

so, to end this off, I will mark this as resolved.