Serious Discussion: WW3RP 'back to basics'... sortof

[Rabid]

WW3RP in its original form never died due to lack of interest.

Wasn't literally nobody playing it though? Like unless I'm massively misremembering.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Sure, you only need an engineer or two (armed with RPGs) to combat a tank, but will they always be online? So you make a bunch of rules to limit vehicle usage, and a pilot breaks those strict rules and gets demoted, now one side is missing their only active pilot.

The no small arms rule against helicopters worked well because of how WAC and (when it was added) HVAP would get absolutely shredded in about 10 or so shots from infantry. It wasn't hard at all to hit an RPG shot on a helicopter because at the end of the day it is a flying hunk of metal in the sky; a trade-off in a sense for the possible high damage it can do.

Even then, it's difficult to enforce. The amount of times I limped back to base with no tail rotor because people thought it'd be funny to take potshots from their FOB I couldn't count on my fingers. It's a two-way street with the rules.

As Uncle Ben said, with great power comes great responsibility. When I was Globalist Airforce lead, I would always make sure to not use the missiles on helicopters unless it was against vehicles or shelling a fortified position, and I would stress the same to my faction members. It was much more rewarding and fair on other players to do strafe runs with the miniguns/cannons in order to give them a chance to fight back or run away. There wasn't much need for stuff like vehicle rosters in the airforces on both sides because the leads (looking at you @Rondal :wink:) were very responsible and wouldn't hurl Apaches or Mi-28s every 5 minutes.

Airforce was always a niche faction with a small playerbase as you said. Kind of similar to OTA on HL2 in the sense that they aren't constantly out and about, and seeing a helicopter in the field should be something that scares you. There was times where I was the only Glob pilot on, and the roster would have a maximum of like 5 players. But this is what it should be. Going forward, I hope that the airforce is treated in this way. Allowed to be used actively and when duty calls (i.e. not limited to solely event purposes) yet not to deploy every five minutes.

@Roosebud you need some responsible airforce leads for this!!!!

 

[Roosebud]

The no small arms rule against helicopters worked well because of how WAC and (when it was added) HVAP would get absolutely shredded in about 10 or so shots from infantry. It wasn't hard at all to hit an RPG shot on a helicopter because at the end of the day it is a flying hunk of metal in the sky; a trade-off in a sense for the possible high damage it can do.

Even then, it's difficult to enforce. The amount of times I limped back to base with no tail rotor because people thought it'd be funny to take potshots from their FOB I couldn't count on my fingers. It's a two-way street with the rules.

As Uncle Ben said, with great power comes great responsibility. When I was Globalist Airforce lead, I would always make sure to not use the missiles on helicopters unless it was against vehicles or shelling a fortified position, and I would stress the same to my faction members. It was much more rewarding and fair on other players to do strafe runs with the miniguns/cannons in order to give them a chance to fight back or run away. There wasn't much need for stuff like vehicle rosters in the airforces on both sides because the leads (looking at you @Rondal :wink:) were very responsible and wouldn't hurl Apaches or Mi-28s every 5 minutes.

Airforce was always a niche faction with a small playerbase as you said. Kind of similar to OTA on HL2 in the sense that they aren't constantly out and about, and seeing a helicopter in the field should be something that scares you. There was times where I was the only Glob pilot on, and the roster would have a maximum of like 5 players. But this is what it should be. Going forward, I hope that the airforce is treated in this way. Allowed to be used actively and when duty calls (i.e. not limited to solely event purposes) yet not to deploy every five minutes.

@Roosebud you need some responsible airforce leads for this!!!!

I kinda just circumvented the entire small arms vs helicopters dilemma in Stasiland by making helicopters have huge HP, and buffing stuff like the radar-guided missiles and AA guns that couldn't be lowered to infantry-level to be able to kill them.

LFS is also incredibly easy to use, which is why we wanted to use aircraft more, never got around to it on Stasiland aside from the Hind and NATO supply runs using the blackhawk.

 

[Oxy[Morons]]

Wasn't literally nobody playing it though? Like unless I'm massively misremembering.

the original lp one? no.
the one that came after change of management? yes

 

[Roosebud]

Wasn't literally nobody playing it though? Like unless I'm massively misremembering.

I don't personally recall it sitting empty for weeks like with Stasiland, at most we'd occassionally have the same periods that HL2RP suffers, tracing back to the formula of doing map-switch operations or introducing new aspects to revitalize it.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

I kinda just circumvented the entire small arms vs helicopters dilemma in Stasiland by making helicopters have huge HP, and buffing stuff like the radar-guided missiles and AA guns that couldn't be lowered to infantry-level to be able to kill them.

LFS is also incredibly easy to use, which is why we wanted to use aircraft more, never got around to it on Stasiland aside from the Hind and NATO supply runs using the blackhawk.

wait wait wait, so LFS is the new base? is it better than HVAP? anything is better than WAC obviously but how does this compare?

 

[Deleted member 61]

Wasn't literally nobody playing it though? Like unless I'm massively misremembering.

LP died, along with it, WW3RP, then it was relaunched in a different community. Came back again in Neb I'm pretty sure but shutdown because Roosebud called it quits or something, can't remember. This recent iteration wasn't really WW3RP at its core, we tried something new and it didn't work out so it died.

 

[Rondal]

The no small arms rule against helicopters worked well because of how WAC and (when it was added) HVAP would get absolutely shredded in about 10 or so shots from infantry. It wasn't hard at all to hit an RPG shot on a helicopter because at the end of the day it is a flying hunk of metal in the sky; a trade-off in a sense for the possible high damage it can do.

Even then, it's difficult to enforce. The amount of times I limped back to base with no tail rotor because people thought it'd be funny to take potshots from their FOB I couldn't count on my fingers. It's a two-way street with the rules.

As Uncle Ben said, with great power comes great responsibility. When I was Globalist Airforce lead, I would always make sure to not use the missiles on helicopters unless it was against vehicles or shelling a fortified position, and I would stress the same to my faction members. It was much more rewarding and fair on other players to do strafe runs with the miniguns/cannons in order to give them a chance to fight back or run away. There wasn't much need for stuff like vehicle rosters in the airforces on both sides because the leads (looking at you @Rondal :wink:) were very responsible and wouldn't hurl Apaches or Mi-28s every 5 minutes.

Airforce was always a niche faction with a small playerbase as you said. Kind of similar to OTA on HL2 in the sense that they aren't constantly out and about, and seeing a helicopter in the field should be something that scares you. There was times where I was the only Glob pilot on, and the roster would have a maximum of like 5 players. But this is what it should be. Going forward, I hope that the airforce is treated in this way. Allowed to be used actively and when duty calls (i.e. not limited to solely event purposes) yet not to deploy every five minutes.

@Roosebud you need some responsible airforce leads for this!!!!

this was due to my pc hitting 0fps every five seconds back then

now it's every ten, I can work with this

wait wait wait, so LFS is the new base? is it better than HVAP? anything is better than WAC obviously but how does this compare?

LFS makes HVAP look like a pea-shooter for people that play Arma. Has a lot more interaction too.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

this was due to my pc hitting 0fps every five seconds back then

now it's every ten, I can work with this


LFS makes HVAP look like a pea-shooter for people that play Arma. Has a lot more interaction too.

uhh, yeah based department?

they're back at it again

lemme go download it and see how it compares, i gotta get practice in so i win more dogfights again you

 

[Rondal]

uhh, yeah based department?

they're back at it again

lemme go download it and see how it compares, i gotta get practice in so i win more dogfights again you

Nicole Hempton's medevacs saved lives, deal with it.

 

[Roosebud]

I'm also really curious to hear the "yes, but..." stuff from @Jas691 @The Catastrophe Maker , @Poopship McGee and @bigdaddyboy413

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Nicole Hempton's medevacs saved lives, deal with it.

Gemma Price blew up a full Coalition troop transport without questioning if it was a medical and promptly went back to base to eat chocolate

 

[Deleted member 1381]

It was much more rewarding and fair on other players to do strafe runs with the miniguns/cannons in order to give them a chance to fight back or run away. There wasn't much need for stuff like vehicle rosters in the airforces on both sides because the leads (looking at you @Rondal :wink:) were very responsible and wouldn't hurl Apaches or Mi-28s every 5 minutes.

Airforce was always a niche faction with a small playerbase as you said. Kind of similar to OTA on HL2 in the sense that they aren't constantly out and about, and seeing a helicopter in the field should be something that scares you.

At some point in Pripyat when I was heading/co heading engineering(and subsequently the airforce) I tried to push the use of unarmed helicopters more. We used to send out Bell's(our counterpart of littlebirds at the time) to land on the roof of buildings like the construction site and transport stabilised POW's back to base. It made for a nice change of tone instead of dragging and flinging a body all over the place until you got back to base. It also made pilots come to more prominence with more applications coming in, and typically someone on standby ready to fly out for an evac if the team requests it. Helicopters are great and add to the wartime atmosphere a lot, it would be nice to see them used more with a small but niche faction like you said.

 

[Deleted member 61]

I'm also really curious to hear the "yes, but..." stuff from @Jas691 @The Catastrophe Maker , @Poopship McGee and @bigdaddyboy413

I've always said that so long as faction management keeps an eye on their playerbase, and by this, I mean, sending them out and watching how they interact with their squad and with civilians in observer. The officers and management need to be more or less on the same page in order to crackdown on the more important in-character rules.

If you keep an eye on who is actively contributing by roleplaying with their squadmates and civilians, you promote them and hope that people see that they were promoted for positively contributing to the active roleplay on the server, they could be too if they acted in a similar manner.

This can quickly go to waste if you simply look at the number of POWs, successful field reports and confirmed kills. I personally, would like to see the return of mandatory field reports, unless authorized by a CO in emergency situations.

From what I've seen in terms of the complete vehicle, artillery, weapons base, etc. is that we had so many (SO MANY) fucking amazing assets that we never got to fully use because we were never in a real 'big numbers' faction brawl that warranted it. I would've fucking loved to see the flamethrower used outside of the event.

The script/code itself is stellar by all GMOD standards in terms of the amount of things to be crafted, etc. The fact that the community has never witnessed the 'full' features of Stasiland was always sad to me.

Another massive question is: will @char be able to lead Soviets or will he have had to move on to greener pastures in real life? :(

On reflection, I feel as if to a point, we were over-zealous on the S2K elements of WW3RP in fear of the consequences if that became all everybody did that we ended up losing people who were old WW3RPers that did roleplay, however enjoyed S2K and combat on the field, and the tense situations where you're critically wounded, your timer is on five minutes and you hear a different language coming towards you. There was definitely a sort of rush that you got back in the day.

What I believe should be changed is that faction warfare should be relatively similar to the old types. Basic weapon vendor for each faction. Soviets have detachments with specific assigned weapons while insurgency has to pay, but has free range. Civilians (non-combatants by choice, unless in life or death situations) get passive money as well as staff support in creating an establishment/home/setup that they're interested in having and roleplaying in. Either staff can be giving them options for stock for the sake of roleplay or there can be some sort of supplier flags. Civilians can either be extorted, robbed, or donated by/for the insurgent faction which will use those funds to pay for weapons/ammo. Their basic weapons will be relatively cheap. It will be encouraged that insurgents who pull off successful heists, schemes, etc. to make money also spread the wealth, weapons, gear to other insurgents to strengthen themselves as a whole, despite them not particularly being a sole entity like the Soviets.

This would more or less work like

• Soviet basic vendor, access to free basic AK. Ammo costs req to avoid hoarding/full pouches.
• Alternative weapons cost slightly more than the insurgent vendor, however, Soviets get passive income, plus rewards from COs after field ops.
• Ease of access to radio communications.
• Ease of access to artillery, armored vehicles, aircraft, etc. Limited by faction management discretion and an effort to fight 'even/retaliatory' fights.
• Orthodox hierarchy of Soviet military.
• Detachment of GDR state officials.
• Put a hold on the undercover Stasi operations and allow for solid structure to be build among insurgents, preferably naturally with PBGs.

• Insurgent basic vendor, access to free pistol, cheap pistol ammo.
• Alternative weapons are relatively cheap, however, insurgent earn money from either being given it by civilians or by extorting, scheming, robbing them (or Soviets for that matter, however, included in rules should be a max amount).
• Crafting materials should be purchaseable from a vendor in limited and refreshing quantities to give independence from the script spawner and admin intervention. If someone wants to roleplay this role, fine go ahead, but I doubt you do.
• Allow PBGs to determine the flow of their story. The server should be enjoyable with two insurgents, passive roleplaying and perhaps, taking potshots and then fleeing the scene as it is with an entire organized militia opposing the Soviets from their compound.
• Encourage their leaders to discuss ideas with staff of potential events, or scenarios they might want to 'script' for the sake of story, entertainment.
• Make insurgents a ridiculously stupid threat. Overwhelmingly so. Give their vendor access to RPGs, landmines and artillery pieces. Keep their ability to craft tanks and helicopters.
• Allow insurgents/civilians to pick a single crafting flag upon character creation and then have them apply if they want another.

• Push lore further in time and Eastward to justify the lack of NATO presence and a surging insurgent force.

If we want to really talk about a server that runs itself, lets talk about the necessity of vendors and a passive income, despite the 'sensibility' of it. If you want to make a server such as WW3RP sustainable, we have to look back at what worked and what didn't. Even militia had a basic income. What I can see working is taking the militia from old WW3RP and fleshing it out with crafting, crafting flags and weapon selection. Start off weak, but able to become extremely powerful if enough cash is made to buy the better equipment. I don't think we particularly want a 'BMD' that can have its own power structure and effect on the server, although, it could be nice. I don't know if that would create more problem than it would solve.

With militia being a unique faction in which, you can start your own cause, make your own money-making schemes to fund it and a basic starting set up that can get you 'in it', I think there's a definite fresh face to the server. I think it could work well.

 

[Trains]

this was due to my pc hitting 0fps every five seconds back then

now it's every ten, I can work with this


LFS makes HVAP look like a pea-shooter for people that play Arma. Has a lot more interaction too.

lfs reminds me of warthunder legit its great

 

[Rondal]

Gemma Price blew up a full Coalition troop transport without questioning if it was a medical and promptly went back to base to eat chocolate

I remember my greatest feat of flying:

someone shot out my tail rotor and I flew in circles for an hour in my AH-1Z trying to disguise that I had no control whilst my gunner decimated patrols

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

At some point in Pripyat when I was heading/co heading engineering(and subsequently the airforce) I tried to push the use of unarmed helicopters more. We used to send out Bell's(our counterpart of littlebirds at the time) to land on the roof of buildings like the construction site and transport stabilised POW's back to base. It made for a nice change of tone instead of dragging and flinging a body all over the place until you got back to base. It also made pilots come to more prominence with more applications coming in, and typically someone on standby ready to fly out for an evac if the team requests it. Helicopters are great and add to the wartime atmosphere a lot, it would be nice to see them used more with a small but niche faction like you said.

Yeah, that's exactly what I used Pripyat for. Having rooftops to land on, doing a dodgy touch and go in the middle of a firefight at Tex to reinforce and evacuate, flying low and using the buildings for cover. FUCK I MISS IT

That's what I definitely want to see the airforce used for primarily if this server idea ever goes ahead (which I pray to God it does). Transporting troops into battle / medevac first, and then CAS second.

 

[Deleted member 1381]

wait wait wait, so LFS is the new base? is it better than HVAP? anything is better than WAC obviously but how does this compare?

LFS is a lot easier to control(apart form landings, lol). If you've ever played swrp servers its the same controls/base that they use for vultures/laat's. Prefer WAC personally but as long as it's flyable idm

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

I remember my greatest feat of flying:

someone shot out my tail rotor and I flew in circles for an hour in my AH-1Z trying to disguise that I had no control whilst my gunner decimated patrols

WAC was janky as fuck it had a fetish for having your tail rotor drop off and watching you spiral in place. I'd just hit hover so I didn't nosedive and get my gunner to tear ass

 

[aperson]

have we ever had old-ww3rp on helix?