The Current State of Civil Protection: A Critique

[Tinbe]

i will just say this - i've had a chance to be on both sides of this and one of the main driving aspects of OOC competitiveness is that its something that occurs on both sides

Honestly, the OOC competitiveness has personally begun to wear me down, and I honestly have no idea how to solve it in any feasible manner. As it is, people will pick a side and fight tooth and nail to ensure success for that side. It's even worse than CSGO honestly, because it's just round-based shoot 'em up over some very benign objectives that are repeated ad infinitum. The tension doesn't come from failing to do this or that, but from failing full-stop. Because failure is defeat.

Failure, and defeat by extension, however, cuts much deeper here. You are emotionally invested into a character. The side they take. You might spend a lot of hours trying to think how they can contribute to the cause. And there's the painful part; having two sides diametrically opposed to one another with so much invested into their own side winning. If people rage over something as impermanent as CSGO, then it's going to be so much worse in smth like HL2RP.

Even if powers that be are cordial between one another and do their best to balance things out between rebels and Combine, everybody else beneath them is still going to run at each other like it's a cross between D&D and college football. Maybe it sounds like I'm going off-tangent here, but I feel like the issues discussed in this thread are symptomatic of the larger issue at hand. Then again, it's all too much for me to even handle, so maybe I'm way in over my head just bringing it up.

Yet I haven't seen any of the aforementioned show their faces here yet.

Tbh I think few people would be gutsy enough to enter such a thread knowing they'll just get shut down immediately on all sides, whether they were right or wrong in the first place.

 

[Verräterpackaging]

The passive must come from the players, rebels aren't restricted, neither should be CPs. Will make things easier for sure!

 

[Appetite Ruining Kebab]

Honestly, the OOC competitiveness has personally begun to wear me down, and I honestly have no idea how to solve it in any feasible manner. As it is, people will pick a side and fight tooth and nail to ensure success for that side. It's even worse than CSGO honestly, because it's just round-based shoot 'em up over some very benign objectives that are repeated ad infinitum. The tension doesn't come from failing to do this or that, but from failing full-stop. Because failure is defeat.

Failure, and defeat by extension, however, cuts much deeper here. You are emotionally invested into a character. The side they take. You might spend a lot of hours trying to think how they can contribute to the cause. And there's the painful part; having two sides diametrically opposed to one another with so much invested into their own side winning. If people rage over something as impermanent as CSGO, then it's going to be so much worse in smth like HL2RP.

Even if powers that be are cordial between one another and do their best to balance things out between rebels and Combine, everybody else beneath them is still going to run at each other like it's a cross between D&D and college football. Maybe it sounds like I'm going off-tangent here, but I feel like the issues discussed in this thread are symptomatic of the larger issue at hand. Then again, it's all too much for me to even handle, so maybe I'm way in over my head just bringing it up.

Tbh I think few people would be gutsy enough to enter such a thread knowing they'll just get shut down immediately on all sides, whether they were right or wrong in the first place.

personally i think it's simply the poison we've picked, @Numbers and i were aware of what this dynamic could create way back in the drawing room, we went ahead despite the risk

the struggle isn't to eliminate the problem entirely, because that's impossible unless we stop having conflict at all full stop (remember that shit like this still existed in cityRP back in 2020, it's not even a question of a PvP setting), the struggle is to minimize it to the best of our ability

and "powers that be being cordial with another" is definitely a good start

 

[Eviction Notice]

I recall on day 1 of this new map, reading that this time it is focusing more on Passive RP and less on S2K.

There's an irony to deciding 'NOW we will focus on passive roleplay' on an outlands map, something that CityRP caters to alot better.

 

[MaXenzie]

There's an irony to deciding 'NOW we will focus on passive roleplay' on an outlands map, something that CityRP caters to alot better.

the city was under siege my guy

 

[Eviction Notice]

the city was under siege my guy

This doesn't exactly change my point made, an outlands map inherently promotes faction wars because 90% of it is barren nothingness.

 

[Tinbe]

the struggle isn't to eliminate the problem entirely, because that's impossible unless we stop having conflict at all full stop (remember that shit like this still existed in cityRP back in 2020, it's not even a question of a PvP setting), the struggle is to minimize it to the best of our ability

Yeah, I don't think there would be any way to stop it unless one side of the conflict was officially turned into the antagonist faction staffed entirely by, well, staff and volunteers willing to play as the "bad guys" for the "actual" players to overcome, like a large-scale application of the usual event formula.

and "powers that be being cordial with another" is definitely a good start

Absolutely, we're in complete agreement on that. I hope my choice of wording didn't sound untoward or anything, I Just struggled to adequately put a name on the part of staff which holds direct, well, direction over the two main factions. Headstaff would've probably been a good pick, in hindsight.

 

[Simman102]

i still cant believe @Simman102 is still a RL after openly declaring that every CP that isn't a RL is a retard that he wouldn't trust without constant supervision

This is the third time I see this brought up and I still do not recall saying that

 

[Appetite Ruining Kebab]

Yeah, I don't think there would be any way to stop it unless one side of the conflict was officially turned into the antagonist faction staffed entirely by, well, staff and volunteers willing to play as the "bad guys" for the "actual" players to overcome, like a large-scale application of the usual event formula.

there have been points in fact where we let it go on simply because its the lifeblood of the setting. people are really really fucking good at starting shit with one another and if you can harness it IC then sometimes you dont even have to do anything as staff. its a weird irony but its never been about stopping it entirely, just having ground rules so it can continue to happen in a """civilized""" way. as it is we're too hesitant to act when some people go too far with it

unless one side of the conflict was officially turned into the antagonist faction staffed entirely by, well, staff and volunteers willing to play as the "bad guys" for the "actual" players to overcome, like a large-scale application of the usual event formula.

whereas this would be incredibly taxing to keep up and could easily lead to combine falling into the rut of actually being punching bags if we're not careful. the investment of actual players in it does work as a buffer against that pressure at the end of the day

 

['77 East]

Headstaff

None of them take active part in how the server's run.

I Just struggled to adequately put a name on the part of staff which holds direct, well, direction over the two main factions.

A bunch of SA's and some minor staff, insurgency is a bit more fluid.

Thing is, direction does not equal concrete leadership, the cell system shows how some people have gone off the rails over absolute trite and meanwhile the % point hierarchy for cops shows that no one has much privilege besides RLs, a good chunk of which have pissed over everything (and continue to do so) for absolutely little point.

 

[Tinbe]

there have been points in fact where we let it go on simply because its the lifeblood of the setting. people are really really fucking good at starting shit with one another and if you can harness it IC then sometimes you dont even have to do anything as staff. its a weird irony but its never been about stopping it entirely, just having ground rules so it can continue to happen in a """civilized""" way. as it is we're too hesitant to act when some people go too far with it

whereas this would be incredibly taxing to keep up and could easily lead to combine falling into the rut of actually being punching bags if we're not careful. the investment of actual players in it does work as a buffer against that pressure at the end of the day

Again, you're right. Honestly, I completely botched that part of my post, I was supposed to continue my point further. Still got brain fog after going through common cold for a few days now.

What I was going to say is that this

Yeah, I don't think there would be any way to stop it unless one side of the conflict was officially turned into the antagonist faction staffed entirely by, well, staff and volunteers willing to play as the "bad guys" for the "actual" players to overcome, like a large-scale application of the usual event formula.

-is pretty much implausible. Not only would it be exhausting as you put it, but also the fact trying to do it now, after the fact, would be nothing short of insulting and would lead to some major backlash. Neither side of playerbase, rebel or Combine, would take kindly to being told "Sorry, you are not going to be as important as the opposite side."

I feel like I'm still forgetting something, but I think I got the main part out of the way.

 

[STUCK IN A CAKE]

This doesn't exactly change my point made, an outlands map inherently promotes faction wars because 90% of it is barren nothingness.

I like the outer city limits (like ashville) where you could reasonably have an extension of a city be constructed, and create areas for refugees and shit

 

['77 East]

I like the outer city limits (like ashville) where you could reasonably have an extension of a city be constructed, and create areas for refugees and shit

City warzones do work but they need to be filled with rubble and places zoned off, besides, at best you're getting a month out of it.

 

[Isuckatgaming]

destroy all discords and permaban anyone who uses them for metagaming

if they cry about it on the forums permaban them here too good riddance

 

[Appetite Ruining Kebab]

destroy all discords and permaban anyone who uses them for metagaming

if they cry about it on the forums permaban them here too good riddance

based.. so fkin zased

 

[Maytree]

disable 3rd person when raising weapons and forcefully disembowel anyone who dares to bypass it

 

[Merlinsclaw]

tbh personally I always felt like discord VCs, especially during combat, felt gamey. You could tell, even during downtime/passive, who is sitting in a VC because they all congregate or do the same thing without orders being relayed in chat.

This mainly comes as a cop but I feel like it removes part of the experience by just being in a VC 24/7. I refuse to join VCs.

 

[Simman102]

thread kinda reminded me of how when I suggested that RLs should be held to a roleplay standard (because it's not a good outlook for new players) I had an ex-SD go at me because "how dare I criticise anyone's roleplay"

it do be like that sometimes

 

['77 East]

RLs should be help to a roleplay standard

You know, I do entirely agree with you.

I just wonder why they aren't being held to a personal standard right now, if you fuck up and get iced you shouldn't have a free pass to keep your command; likewise you shouldn't get a free pass to be an absolute prick and then make demands on staff that you won't accept a demotion for your own failures (and then instigate a planned mass resignation to force their hand).

You want to lead PTs only with rank leaders? As much as it regresses things when you all sit in a locked discord channel and do these things, I'm perfectly fine with it if there's risk that comes with the job. You don't get to pick and choose if you get free vouchers to keep your slot if you play the safe game and then get PK'd.

 

[ShaVeK HaChaver 814]

i will immediately resign from rank leadership upon the PK-death of DEFENDER-4